Tequila Shooter Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I'm asking the expert cowboys out on the range. I've only loaded smokeless but now I'm ready to dip my toe win the black world. I'm going to be loading .45 Colt and 12 ga shotshell. I sent this email to Alliant: I'm just starting out loading BP sub for Cowboy Action Shooting. Can I use my coated bullets? Is there any load information? Does it need to be compressed like real BP? Fillers? Can they be used? Is Black MZ measured by weight or volume? Handgun - Firearm Make/Model: Pietta SAA Cartridge: .45 LC Bullet Brand and Style: Coated RNFP Bullet Weight (Grains): 160/200/250 gr Primer: Federal Large Pistol Powder: Black MZ This was their response: 45Colt 250 RNFP Federal Fed150 1.58 26.5 899 300 RNFP Federal Fed150 1.6 26.0 905 These charges are by weight, not volume. The charges are not to be reduced and are the charge to use. As you can see not everything I was asking about. I'm pretty sure there's a gunslinger out there who can answer some or all of my questions. Also anyone has other load data that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I load shotgun shells with MZ with the same data Hodgdon once published for its subs. Send me your e-mail address via a PM and I will send a scan of that data to you. Alliant says MZ is not very hydroscopic so I don't protect my SG shells from humidity. However, I live in the desert and you live on the Gulf Coast. Your experience may not be the same regarding humidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Their information is useless. It does not even tell the barrel length. WAY too much powder. I use 1cc in everything from 32-20, 38 Special, 38WCF, C45S and 44WCF. I use a little wad of U-Haul packing peanut as filler when loading 38WCF and 44WCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 OK ..... BLACK MZ is a Sub made by APP for Alliant. The base line is you start by loading cartridge to the base of the bullet. NO airspace. The specific weight is immaterial. If you wish to reduce the charge, replace the removed powder with a filler, again, to the base of the bullet. Leave NO airspace. Compression is not necessary. Yes you can use coated bullets as "lube" is not necessary with B-MZ. B-MZ is measured by Weight or Volume. Notice, the starting point is the base of the bullet. If you want to use a scale or measure or dispenser, weigh that amount then set your measure/dispense or make a dipper and go with the same volume. You won't find much in the way of load data for BP or Subs. The theme is "leave NO airspace." The warden beat me to the draw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: OK ..... BLACK MZ is a Sub made by APP for Alliant. The base line is you start by loading cartridge to the base of the bullet. NO airspace. The specific weight is immaterial. If you wish to reduce the charge, replace the removed powder with a filler, again, to the base of the bullet. Leave NO airspace. Compression is not necessary. Yes you can use coated bullets as "lube" is not necessary with B-MZ. B-MZ is measured by Weight or Volume. Notice, the starting point is the base of the bullet. If you want to use a scale or measure or dispenser, weigh that amount then set your measure/dispense or make a dipper and go with the same volume. You won't find much in the way of load data for BP or Subs. The theme is "leave NO airspace." The warden beat me to the draw This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 See this thread. Lots of loads used for SG shells using various BP subs, wads and amounts of shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Longpants Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I agree the Alliant data produces some hot loads. I followed those 45 loads and showed up at a match and they were hot (rattled the extractor assembly right off my pistol at one point). I have downloaded Black MZ to comfortable values following exactly what Coffinmaker said above. Fill the case with a combo of power and filer and they work just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1cc with filler to give enough compression that filler & powder won't mix will make you happy . If you want a bit more power just increase/decrease powder/filler. 1 cc will make the smoke standard with subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 @Colorado Coffinmaker since B-MZ is made by APP can I use APP load data? Can I treat it the same as APP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 My wife uses MZ, I use BP. I called and talked to a TR about MZ, a little comp is ok but you will get varying results with too much. I asked about lube with MZ. I was told do NOT use lube with it. If compress it too much you can actually start getting excess pressure and flattening your primers. kR PS They will tell you to not use any fillers with it so you are on your own in that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Tequila Chase said: @Colorado Coffinmaker since B-MZ is made by APP can I use APP load data? Can I treat it the same as APP? Is there any published loading data for cartridges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: Is there any published loading data for cartridges? See this link. I load APP for my wife in 32 H&R mag cases exactly how CC recommends: fill the case so that the bullet just touches the powder. I load 777 for myself the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: See this link. I load APP for my wife in 32 H&R mag cases exactly how CC recommends: fill the case so that the bullet just touches the powder. I load 777 for myself the same way. As I figured. It's a method rather than a chart of case, bullet, charge giving some resulting velocity like you find with smokeless powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Tequila ..... not that I know of. I have NEVER seen any load data presented in the same way as Smokeless (That Fad Stuff). Neither for BP or APP. The "loads" for APP and Black MZ are exactly the same. Load to the base of the Bullet. NO MANUFACTURE I know of suggests or recommends the use of fillers with their products. At least, not that I have ever seen. Some fillers once used for Smokeless were found to be detrimental to your guns and your health. I am unaware of any problems with BP or APP using Breakfast Food. I do, however, suggest cutting well back on the amount of water used for your Cream-0-Wheat filler (snicker snicker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 It is important that no air space or gap be left when the bullet is seated, and the use of fillers is not recommended for general cartridge shooting, but is often required and acceptable for achieving the lower velocities desired in Cowboy Action Shooting. The filler should be composed of an acceptable material as recommended by the Single Action Shooting Society. No grease cookie or lube wad is needed, and the use of one will lower the performance. Regular bullet lube is fine - no special bullet lube is required. A good consistent crimp will help give consistent results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.