Interesting info: .45 Colt vs. .454 vs. 460 Mag

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I own a .45 Colt in the Marlin 1894 with a 16.25" barrel.

I once owned a Tauras Raging Bull in .454 Casull with the 6.5" barrel.

I have not owned the new S&W .460 Magnum, BUT...................(read on)

 

While watching some YouTube videos on the S&W .460 with the 5" barrel, the shooter was bragging about his 200 grain bullets reaching an average of 2000 fps velocity.   YES, it showed the chronograph being used.

 

When I had my .454 Raging Bull, I was reaching the 1900 fps velocities with a 240 grain bullet.

 

BUT, and here is the interesting part:    I went back and checked my velocity figures in my hot loaded .45 Colt loads using the 240 grain bullets and I was AVERAGING 1925 fps velocities with my favorite load in my 16.25" barrel Marlin 1894.

 

In essence, if any of you have a good condition 1894 or 1892 rifle in .45 Colt, its highly possible to achieve some real good 'dandy'  performance levels using the right bullet and powder combinations that can equal the performance of the .460 S&W magnum pistol.

 

SIDE NOTE:  I developed my loads using published load data for LilGun, H110 and AA9 powders.   I also used 'cut down' .454 brass to .45 Colt length using small rifle primers.   The .454 Brass uses small primers and allows for a beefier web for added strength.

 

And I will admit that it is a shoulder thumper to shoot...... but I do get some good accuracy out of it with 240, 250 and 300 grain slugs.

 

Mileage varies  (but probably not by much).

 

..........Widder

 

[Alpo]

If you used cut-down 454 brass, your powder capacity was too small. "Published data" would have been wrong.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

17 minutes ago, Alpo said:

If you used cut-down 454 brass, your powder capacity was too small. "Published data" would have been wrong.

 

If I remember correctly, I used some data published using the Casull brass with small magnum rifle primers.

 

This I do know:  When I shoot these hot loads in my Ruger .45 SBH Hunter, the brass falls right out of the chambers with no stickiness.  NOR is there any obvious signs of pressure like split cases, bulging cases or flat primers.  Nor has any of my brass developed the 'shiney' ring around the web area.

Plus, I'm using published load info on LilGun powder, which apparently gives significant LESS pressures in these type loads than other commonly known powders.

 

Do you think there is a loading error with this?

 

..........Widder

 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

1 hour ago, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said:

I own a .45 Colt in the Marlin 1894 with a 16.25" barrel.

I once owned a Tauras Raging Bull in .454 Casull with the 6.5" barrel.

I have not owned the new S&W .460 Magnum, BUT...................(read on)

 

While watching some YouTube videos on the S&W .460 with the 5" barrel, the shooter was bragging about his 200 grain bullets reaching an average of 2000 fps velocity.   YES, it showed the chronograph being used.

 

When I had my .454 Raging Bull, I was reaching the 1900 fps velocities with a 240 grain bullet.

 

BUT, and here is the interesting part:    I went back and checked my velocity figures in my hot loaded .45 Colt loads using the 240 grain bullets and I was AVERAGING 1925 fps velocities with my favorite load in my 16.25" barrel Marlin 1894.

 

In essence, if any of you have a good condition 1894 or 1892 rifle in .45 Colt, its highly possible to achieve some real good 'dandy'  performance levels using the right bullet and powder combinations that can equal the performance of the .460 S&W magnum pistol.

 

SIDE NOTE:  I developed my loads using published load data for LilGun, H110 and AA9 powders.   I also used 'cut down' .454 brass to .45 Colt length using small rifle primers.   The .454 Brass uses small primers and allows for a beefier web for added strength.

 

And I will admit that it is a shoulder thumper to shoot...... but I do get some good accuracy out of it with 240, 250 and 300 grain slugs.

 

Mileage varies  (but probably not by much).

 

..........Widder

 

I once chronographed 45 colt from a 66 saddle ring carbine (19" barrel) with a compressed case of Schutzen 3f black powder and 250 grain bullet magnum primer right around 1050-1075 fps. That is effectively in the power realm realm of standard velocity 44 mag  240 grain at 1180 fps and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any deer, pig or black bear in iron sight range (100-150 yards).

 

I hunted with a guy last month that used a 115 year old 1892 in 38-40 WCF. Bang, flop at about 50 yards. He was using factory loads. Basically a 180 grain at just under 1200 fps. 

 

I shot some 45 Colt 300 grains from an old Interarms 65. That sucker would thump. 19 or 20" barrel on it. Guy I got ammo from said the load was used  for silhouette pistol. Had to single load them though. WW 296/H110 powder.

 

These make fine hunting rifles and I have found them  to perform much like a 30-30 on thin skinned game.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Interesting data there, Widder.  I knew folks were pushing the 45 Colt boundaries with the right guns, but never saw it side-by-side with the modern super-cartridges.

 

I can picture how much your Marlin probably thumped with those loads.  My favorite Marlin is a customized pre-safety 94 in 44 mag that I put a crescent steel butt plate on.  Pushing boundaries with that gun is not advised.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Good info DDD.

 

I didn't have any specific goal to achieve .454 or .460 performances from my .45 Colt Marlin.

 

A couple years ago, I started looking at load info for 'hot' .45 Colt loads.   I tried multiple bullet weights and powders but only in my 1894.

 

Then the other day, while watching YouTube, I was interested in this fellers .460 performance and his chronograph test.   I admit that I was very impressed.

THEN, I went and pulled out my .45 COLT folder and started checking my data from a couple years ago.   I discovered that some of my load data was just as impressive in my 16.25" Marlin as the .460 S&W in a 5" barrel.   And then I checked out my .454 data, which I had already compared to the .45 Colt in the Marlin.

And I thought I would share that information because a lot of us own and shoot .45 Colt.  

 

As with any topic like this, I would love to hear results from others who might have either same or different results/experiences.

 

..........Widder

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Interesting data there, Widder.  I knew folks were pushing the 45 Colt boundaries with the right guns, but never saw it side-by-side with the modern super-cartridges.

 

I can picture how much your Marlin probably thumped with those loads.  My favorite Marlin is a customized pre-safety 94 in 44 mag that I put a crescent steel butt plate on.  Pushing boundaries with that gun is not advised.

 

Howdy Charlie.   Next summer when the weather is better, we'll have to get together and burn some powder out on the farm.

 

I actually didn't feel like I was pushing the boundaries because I was staying within some published data, especially with LilGun powder.   The pressure results given were much less than other comparative powders for these big bore pistol type calibers.

But, even with less pressure, it still didn't calm down the 'shoulder thumping'  thunder boomers..... 

 

..........Widder

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Just now, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said:

 

Howdy Charlie.   Next summer when the weather is better, we'll have to get together and burn some powder out on the farm.

 

I actually didn't feel like I was pushing the boundaries because I was staying within some published data, especially with LilGun powder.   The pressure results given were much less than other comparative powders for these big bore pistol type calibers.

But, even with less pressure, it still didn't calm down the 'shoulder thumping'  thunder boomers..... 

 

..........Widder

 

Sounds good by me, Widder.  I hope you and yours have a great weekend.

 

[Noz]

I have a Marlin '94 FG/41 mag.  A 250 gr LBT bullet in front of a bunch of W296 is all I want to handle.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Have a Freedom Arms Premier Grade 4 3/4" bbl, .454 and can launch 300 gn jacketed bullets with ease @ 1500fps with a case full of H-110.

You can also down load with Unique powder, using some lead 255gn SWC bullets, and you have a serious target gun.

I have fired'em all and will stick with the .454.......

OLG

 

[Sedalia Dave]

Wonder what that 460 velocity would be out of a longer barrel.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

13 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Wonder what that 460 velocity would be out of a longer barrel.

 

Good question.   There are some youtube videos of someone shooting the .460 out of the Thompson Center 'Katadin' rifle but I don't recall any velocity information.

 

Gonna double check on that.

 

..........Widder