Dantankerous Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Over the last couple days I have looked at several of the Cimarron line of cartridge (1873 and up models) six guns. Some had the durn hammer safety thing, some did not (hammer was Colt style). Why am I seeing some Cimarrons with and some without? Seems like the cylinder pin "safety" was enough. Was there a change made recently? Is there any rhyme or reason to which gun has the little visually-irritating hammer safety? For example, the Holy Smoker I looked at did not have the hammer safety while the Frontier model did. (Holy Smoker was a very nice six gun, by the way...). Thanks for any helpful insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If you're talking about the block in the hammer that hinges down when the hammer is lowered to the "safety" notch, it's been on Uberti SAA clones for many years. I have a Cattleman from the 1970s that have this feature. It neither helps nor hurts when it comes to cowboy action shooting. The double notch base pin is a nuisance and should be done away with. The stupid pin will slip back into the "safe" notch without your knowledge and you'll be going "click","click","click", and can't figure out what's wrong. Or you will think it's in the fire notch but it's not and it will jump forward and the cylinder will jam up. I replaced the cylinder base pins in our Uberti with these I made. Factory on top. Note the pins I made have a latch cut so that it's held in place security. They have no safe position and they won't jump forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Yes, the hinging block on the hammer is to what I am referring. However, some of the Cimarron models I looked at did not have that. Does that make them older models or perhaps newer models? If this is an import issue why wouldn't all models have this same safety in the hammer? The models at which I looked that had the standard Colt style hammer certainly were more aesthetically pleasing and even period correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Over the last couple days I have looked at several of the Cimarron line of cartridge (1873 and up models) six guns. Some had the durn hammer safety thing, some did not (hammer was Colt style). Why am I seeing some Cimarrons with and some without? Seems like the cylinder pin "safety" was enough. Was there a change made recently? Is there any rhyme or reason to which gun has the little visually-irritating hammer safety? For example, the Holy Smoker I looked at did not have the hammer safety while the Frontier model did. (Holy Smoker was a very nice six gun, by the way...). Thanks for any helpful insight. I'm not sure what you are calling the Frontier model. Cimarron's Frontier line are Piettas and they have never had that safety. If you are talking about a "Frontier Six Shooter", that is what they call the Model P's with the USA (bone meal case hardening) finish, and those definitely do not have the hammer safety, unless you were looking at a very old one. Now, the Uberti 1875 and 1890 Remingtons imported by Cimarron do have the hammer safety. Uberti has never made a standard non-safety hammer for those models. And I must say that Uberti does sometimes make mistakes and I've seen wrong parts on guns, so you never know. But in general, Cimarron Model P's have not changed and shouldn't have the safety hammer that the standard Cattleman has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Deleted. Double post somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Oops, posted just right after Abilene did. Good to hear the Cimarron model Ps don't have it. That is the gun I am after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Howdy The safety feature built into the hammer of Uberti revolvers you are talking about is often referred to as the D Cam. Uberti seems to go back and forth between using it and not using it, instead relying on the two position center pin. I had an Uberti Cattleman a bunch of years ago that had the D Cam in the hammer. Unfortunately I don't still have it so I cannot come up with a manufacture date. However in his book Shooting Sixguns of the Old West, published in 1997, Mike Venturino has a photo of an Uberti revolver with the D Cam on the hammer and he implies that all Uberties imported at that time had this feature. The only Uberti revolver I still have was made in 2001, and it does not have the D Cam on the hammer. When I bought it used it had the two position center pin, which I replaced with a single position center pin from Belt Mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint 976 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Is it an either/or situation, or do some guns have both? I modified the two groove pins by shortening them so the front groove was no longer touching the hammer. I repaired two revolvers for a shooter in California some years ago, that fired in the safety position, the hammer had driven the cylinder pins forward enough to shoot, having been struck often enough, but they both had ruined latches, caused by the cylinder pin groove beating on the latch body. Shortening the pins and replacing the latches fixed things. Yes, they were hard to disassemble. She must have had a lot of misfires in the process..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Dang it! Now you went done and made me wanna dig my old Ubertis out of the safe. I have a Cimarron "Custer" model, from 2004. No D-Cam. It has a 2-position Cylinder Pin, but with the black powder frame, there's a Cylinder Pin retaining screw, that won't let it budge. So, I left it. On my pair of .38-40s, (2008), no D-Cam, but had those 2-position pins. Swapped them for some Colt pins. Works great. Oh my, it's been years since I've used these. Guess I'll have to give them a run this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Here is one of Mary's Ubertis. It has the base pin I made and "Runnin' Irons" hammers. The original hammer had the D cam safety. The D cam safety can be ignored. My 1970s vintage Uberti has one and its not done anything good or bad as I always load 5 and lower on empty anyway. The base pin safety has caused problems. Mary was shooting and had a high primer or a burr cause the gun to be hard to cock. The TO stepped in and took the gun and noted the base pin sticking out and shoved it all the way in. That fixed it. It would cock but not fire. Then one time I had a base pin jump forward and bind up the gun. Likely the base pin was not seated in the groove. My homemade base pins are based on the Elmer Keith design. Belt Mountain makes a variety of base pins - including the Keith design. You can just shorten the factory pin and shove it all the way in. Or you can replace it with a Colt part. The two notch safety base pin is a stupid concept. Who's going to put it on "safe", load 6 and then carry the gun like that? When you go to use it, you have to push the latch and pinch the little round end of the pin and try to pull it out just enough to get to the second groove. Just not going to happen. It's more likely to fumble and drop the gun in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The two notch safety base pin is a stupid concept. Who's going to put it on "safe", load 6 and then carry the gun like that? When you go to use it, you have to push the latch and pinch the little round end of the pin and try to pull it out just enough to get to the second groove. Just not going to happen. It's more likely to fumble and drop the gun in the process. Howdy Again It is a requirement of the US Government that revolvers imported into this country have some sort of safety device in them that prevents an accidental discharge if the gun is dropped on the hammer. Both the two position center pin and the D Cam are ways of getting the guns imported into this country. Yes, the two position center pin is awkward and no one in their right mind would actually use it as a safety if they were carrying the gun fully loaded. But don't forget, the intent of the pin is to get it into the country. It is not really meant to be a practical safety device. If you don't like it, replace the pin like I did, or grind off the rear so it can no longer function as a safety. Luckily, revolvers manufactured in this country, such as the Colt Single Action Army, are not required to have such a safety device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I don't know the exact period of times but the early Uberti made SAA's made what has become known the "D" cam guns. They were prone to go out of time causing the ring around the cylinder scars. This was because the sharp corner of the "D" shaped bolt cam on the hammer and the early 1st gen bolts style with really pointy ends on the fingers tended yo prematurely wear out. This is the early style "D" cam hammer with the plunger and safety flap. Some time in the 90's Uberti dropped the "D" cam and went with the two position base pin, but (probably because they had so many hammer) they still had the flapper. All the current 2 postion base pin safety Uberti's I have been into have the new (sans the flapper) hammers and a bolt with more rounded finger much like the late 2nd and 3rd gen Colts. The more rounded fingers don't wear on the cams so they tend to last longer. The one on the left is a good example of the most recent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Nate-THANK YOU for the time and your knowledge OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy the Avenger Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 If you're talking about the block in the hammer that hinges down when the hammer is lowered to the "safety" notch, it's been on Uberti SAA clones for many years. I have a Cattleman from the 1970s that have this feature. It neither helps nor hurts when it comes to cowboy action shooting. The double notch base pin is a nuisance and should be done away with. The stupid pin will slip back into the "safe" notch without your knowledge and you'll be going "click","click","click", and can't figure out what's wrong. Or you will think it's in the fire notch but it's not and it will jump forward and the cylinder will jam up. I replaced the cylinder base pins in our Uberti with these I made. Factory on top. Note the pins I made have a latch cut so that it's held in place security. They have no safe position and they won't jump forward. Wow I just seen this today at the shoot I was at. First stage the guy fires 2 rounds and click click. ... broke gun At the unloading table there was no hit on the primer I told him he could use my guns At lunch he said he just cleaned them And has never had any problems like this I took the gun to an empty stage and looked at it and this post was dead on Thanks for posting I wish I would of seen it sooner Billy the Avenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I posted this topic on November 17, 2014. DIY Cylinder Base Pins, Running Irons hammers http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=230253 I didn't go into detail why I felt the need to make new base pins to replace the factory ones. I hope Belt Mountain is back in business. I'm not aware of another source for this pin design. The simplest fix is to cut the original pin back until it sets all the way into the safety notch and not block the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 Bits Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I recently purchased two Pietta 1873 "Millennium" models. Both had a transfer bar ala Ruger so no D cam or safety notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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