Cap & Ball Question

[Griff]

Pale Wolf,

 

Does a C&B revolver, capped with hammer at half cock and out of shooter's hand at the loading table, violate the rules and earns a SDQ?

 

Thanks,

 

Amarillo Rattler

I'm going to go with a definite "MAYBE" as the answer. It might be contingent on why and during what part of loading one would be in the loading process. I've run out of caps in my capper during the process of loading... so I have laid the revolver down in front of me while I reload the capper... that takes two hands also. Just as if I'm charging at the table, between the switch from loading powder and wads to then loading balls, the pistols would be laid down (on half cock) as I open the box of balls... However, if I was to leave the table to go back to my cart for caps, wads or balls... then, I'd say yes... if I left it cocked, then I'd have earned a SDQ.

 

I once had a LTO tell me I had to load my C&B with the barrel pointing down... and once when shooting my Colt SAAs, was told that I couldn't lay my pistols down on the table with the hammer at half-cock while I counted out my bullets and set them on the table preparatory to loading...

[Blastmaster]

I'm going to go with a definite "MAYBE" as the answer. It might be contingent on why and during what part of loading one would be in the loading process. I've run out of caps in my capper during the process of loading... so I have laid the revolver down in front of me while I reload the capper... that takes two hands also. Just as if I'm charging at the table, between the switch from loading powder and wads to then loading balls, the pistols would be laid down (on half cock) as I open the box of balls... However, if I was to leave the table to go back to my cart for caps, wads or balls... then, I'd say yes... if I left it cocked, then I'd have earned a SDQ.

 

I once had a LTO tell me I had to load my C&B with the barrel pointing down... and once when shooting my Colt SAAs, was told that I couldn't lay my pistols down on the table with the hammer at half-cock while I counted out my bullets and set them on the table preparatory to loading...

As I understand it, C&B guns are not considered 'Loaded' until the cap is placed on the nipple of a charged chamber. Thus, you can remove your hands from the pistol at any time while charging the cylinders with powder and projectile and the hammer is at half cock. NO caps have been placed on nipples yet.

 

Now, if the shooter runs out of caps in his capper tool, then he 'could' rotate the cylinder to an uncapped chamber, lower the hammer on uncapped chamber, remove his hands from firearm, go to cart (where ever) to get more caps to fill up his capper and then continue the process.

 

Wouldn't this process then place the shooter in complete compliance, as in, loaded gun on half/full cock not leaving hand(s)?

[Rye Miles #13621]

Hey you guys can simplify your lives and fill a cartridge like .44-40 or .45 with a big ol' load of black powder and put yer cap guns away!

[Blastmaster]

Hey you guys can simplify your lives and fill a cartridge like .44-40 or .45 with a big ol' load of black powder and put yer cap guns away!

Some people like to be challenged. and they choose C&B to create the challenge.

I

[Griff]

Hey you guys can simplify your lives and fill a cartridge like .44-40 or .45 with a big ol' load of black powder and put yer cap guns away!

Some people like to be challenged. and they choose C&B to create the challenge.

 

If you have to explain it... they wouldn't understand.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Still waiting for consensus from the ROC.

 

In the meantime, IMO, it's a NO CALL situation at the LT/ULT.

[John Henry Quick]

Some people like to be challenged. and they choose C&B to create the challenge.

I

 

 

If you have to explain it... they wouldn't understand.

 

 

 

+1 I love shooting Frontiersman or FCGF with C&B and it's always a hoot to see that, while I'm NOT a good shooter and will never claim to be, I've also never been the last line of the results spreadsheet. I'll never be a challenge to the really good shooters, so it's all about being a challenge to myself and making all the smoke and noise I can while I'm at it.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Some people like to be challenged. and they choose C&B to create the challenge.

I

I'm all for anyone shooting whatever they like but I tried C&B and while I love the romance and style of the guns…... for CAS I think they're a PITA!!! I have a new found respect for you frontiersman!!! Soldier on troops!

[Wyatt]

Still waiting for consensus from the ROC.

 

In the meantime, IMO, it's a NO CALL situation at the LT/ULT.

 

Do I have another Black Star in my future?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

If ya try real hard, I can accommodate ya.

 

[John Boy]

In the meantime, IMO, it's a NO CALL situation at the LT/ULT.

PWB, here's a guaranteed No Call ...

* Remove the cylinders and load your cylinders at your cart or be the ULTO with powder, wads, balls or grease the cylinders only

* Place your percussions on the LT with no cylinders in them

* At the LT, place the cylinders on the table and cap each cylinder

* Place capped cylinders in your percussion handguns - spin the cylinders to insure no high caps

* Then hold the hammer back, show the LTO that the hammer is over an empty cylinder

* Hear 'Clear' for the LTO and then ease down the hammer on the empty cylinder

At the ULT, with the muzzle pointed to the sky - spin the cylinder to show the ULTO that all 6 cylinders are empty holes

Hear "Clear" - holster your revolvers and head back to your cart

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

PWB, here's a guaranteed No Call ...

I do it a bit differently when shooting C&Bs:

 

* Remove the cylinders and load your cylinders at your cart or be the ULTO with powder, wads, balls or grease the cylinders only

 

* Place your percussions on the LT with no cylinders in them

* At the LT, place the cylinders on the table and cap each cylinder

 

I cap with the cylinders IN the revolvers. Would rather not have CAPPED/LOADED cylinders rolling around on the LT.

If I'm using the NM Army Remingtons, I'll have a days worth of cylinders PRE-loaded to swap out; then cap at the LT;

If using the Colt-style revolvers, they are reloaded after each use while still IN the revolvers.

 

* Place capped cylinders in your percussion handguns - spin the cylinders to insure no high caps

* Then hold the hammer back, show the LTO that the hammer is over an UNCAPPED cylinder chamber

* Hear 'Clear' for the LTO and then ease down the hammer on the UNCAPPED cylinder chamber

 

At the ULT, with the muzzle pointed to the sky - spin the cylinder to show the ULTO that all 6 cylinders are empty holes CAPS have been cleared.

 

Hear "Clear" - holster your revolvers and head back to your cart

[Harvey Mushman]

 

PWB, here's a guaranteed No Call ...

I do it a bit differently when shooting C&Bs:

 

* Remove the cylinders and load your cylinders at your cart or be the ULTO with powder, wads, balls or grease the cylinders only

 

* Place your percussions on the LT with no cylinders in them

* At the LT, place the cylinders on the table and cap each cylinder

 

I cap with the cylinders IN the revolvers. Would rather not have CAPPED/LOADED cylinders rolling around on the LT.

If I'm using the NM Army Remingtons, I'll have a days worth of cylinders PRE-loaded to swap out; then cap at the LT;

If using the Colt-style revolvers, they are reloaded after each use while still IN the revolvers.

 

* Place capped cylinders in your percussion handguns - spin the cylinders to insure no high caps

* Then hold the hammer back, show the LTO that the hammer is over an empty cylinder chamber

* Hear 'Clear' for the LTO and then ease down the hammer on the empty cylinder chamber

 

At the ULT, with the muzzle pointed to the sky - spin the cylinder to show the ULTO that all 6 cylinders are empty holes CAPS have been cleared.

 

Hear "Clear" - holster your revolvers and head back to your cart

 

+1, except I'll have a day's worth of Colt cylinders, as well. Simple to cap either in the pistol - about the same time as loading suppositories and less emotional...

[Griff]

 

PWB, here's a guaranteed No Call ...

I do it a bit differently when shooting C&Bs:

 

* Remove the cylinders and load your cylinders at your cart or be the ULTO with powder, wads, balls or grease the cylinders only

 

* Place your percussions on the LT with no cylinders in them

* At the LT, place the cylinders on the table and cap each cylinder

 

I cap with the cylinders IN the revolvers. Would rather not have CAPPED/LOADED cylinders rolling around on the LT.

If I'm using the NM Army Remingtons, I'll have a days worth of cylinders PRE-loaded to swap out; then cap at the LT;

If using the Colt-style revolvers, they are reloaded after each use while still IN the revolvers.

 

* Place capped cylinders in your percussion handguns - spin the cylinders to insure no high caps

* Then hold the hammer back, show the LTO that the hammer is over an empty cylinder chamber

* Hear 'Clear' for the LTO and then ease down the hammer on the empty cylinder chamber

 

At the ULT, with the muzzle pointed to the sky - spin the cylinder to show the ULTO that all 6 cylinders are empty holes CAPS have been cleared.

 

Hear "Clear" - holster your revolvers and head back to your cart

 

There is no SASS rule regarding whether your C&B revolver has clear chambers, just clear of caps... Besides, I "charge" all six chambers and only cap five. Using WonderWads® & balls that leave a tiny ring around the chamber mouth when seated... I've NEVER had a flashover... Not to say... there might not be a first time... but... experience tells me that with good ROUND chambers, ensuring a ring of lead is trimmed away, WonderWads®... the likelihood is very low.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

There is no SASS rule regarding whether your C&B revolver has clear chambers, just clear of caps...

Besides, I "charge" all six chambers and only cap five. Using WonderWads® & balls that leave a tiny ring around the chamber mouth when seated... I've NEVER had a flashover... Not to say... there might not be a first time... but... experience tells me that with good ROUND chambers, ensuring a ring of lead is trimmed away, WonderWads®... the likelihood is very low.

 

Good point...I edited my reply to UNCAPPED chamber @ the LT

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

So, when I begin capping at the loading table, I cap both revolvers then go back and seat the caps before taking each one off half-cock. By doing this, I set one capped revolver down on half-cock before capping the second. My capping process is not complete by this point, it is complete when I seat the caps.

 

By the way this discussion is going, that would mean I am earning a SDQ?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

So, when I begin capping at the loading table, I cap both revolvers then go back and seat the caps before taking each one off half-cock. By doing this, I set one capped revolver down on half-cock before capping the second. My capping process is not complete by this point, it is complete when I seat the caps.

 

By the way this discussion is going, that would mean I am earning a SDQ?

 

NO.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

Thank you sir, glad to hear I don't need to re-think my loading procedure.

[Blastmaster]

 

NO.

I suppose this is the qualifier for allowing a cocked loaded/capped pistol leaving shooters hands on Firing Line (LT to ULT)..to load/reload. If it works for a capped C&B pistol, then it should work for a cartridge type pistol.

Then I suppose the shooter can leave LT with half/full cocked loaded pistols still on LT to go to gun cart for firearm related supplies. Pressuming hammer is over empty chamber/cylinder.

Wow!! I am missing the logic. But sometimes, logic has nothing to do with it as witnessed at work and society.

RO1 pg15

5. No cocked revolver may ever leave a shooter’s hand (Stage Disqualification). This also

means from one hand to the other. This does NOT apply when loading or reloading on the

firing line.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

The FIRING LINE definition in the "Glossary of Terms" is primarily for the purpose of determining penalties for DROPPED firearms.

REF: RO1 p.30

 

As previously stated, there are a number of rules that do NOT apply at the LT...ONLY while the shooter is engaging the stage (sometimes referred to as the "actual" firing line).

e.g. Breaking the 170º rule (as defined in the Glossary of Terms); cocked firearms leaving the shooters hand; decocking on a live round (without acknowledgement from the T/O); and many others.

 

...

They check to make sure no round is ever under the firing pin of any firearm and that all

loaded firearm hammers are fully down on empty chambers. While at the Loading Table,

shooters must be allowed to make corrections as necessary to be sure no round is under

the firing pin and hammers are fully down on empty chambers without the assessment of

a penalty.

 

RO1 p.9

[Lucky R. K.]

. . .I cap both revolvers then go back and seat the caps before taking each one off half-cock. By doing this, I set one capped revolver down on half-cock before capping the second. My capping process is not complete by this point, it is complete when I seat the caps.

 

Might I suggest that you complete the loading of one pistol before you go to the second. My procedure is to cap each charged cylinder and then seat the caps with a piece of deer antler. I then lower the hammer on the empty chamber(no nipple installed) while the loading officer is watching and then holster the gun. Same procedure for the second pistol.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

 

. . .I cap both revolvers then go back and seat the caps before taking each one off half-cock. By doing this, I set one capped revolver down on half-cock before capping the second. My capping process is not complete by this point, it is complete when I seat the caps.

 

Might I suggest that you complete the loading of one pistol before you go to the second. My procedure is to cap each charged cylinder and then seat the caps with a piece of deer antler. I then lower the hammer on the empty chamber(no nipple installed) while the loading officer is watching and then holster the gun. Same procedure for the second pistol.

 

If this were to be an issue, I would do something similar to what you describe. However, since it is not, I use this procedure to be far more efficient at the loading table.