Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

another hypo What's the call?

Recommended Posts

There is SDQ unsafe gun handling...

 

...and there is MDQ unsafe gun handling.

 

What we are discussing, to me, rises to the MDQ level.

 

SDQ is just not enuff penalty for such a sin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did you know that on a 1911 there is a way to over ride the grip safety, with it working properly?

 

how, holding unloaded empty no shells in it 1911, holding in hand hold it so that hand isn't engaging grip safety pull hammer back all the way and pull trigger while releasing hammer...surprise!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the shooter cocked the second pistol the TO should have kept quiet. It was too late to stop the shooter and the shooter could have shot the fifth round after the second pistol was fired. Or the shooter could have just accepted a miss or P instead of a SDQ. Sometimes it's best to keep quiet as a TO instead of creating a bad situation. The shooter will suffer due to TO error.

 

 

Assassin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the shooter cocked the second pistol the TO should have kept quiet. It was too late to stop the shooter and the shooter could have shot the fifth round after the second pistol was fired. Or the shooter could have just accepted a miss or P instead of a SDQ. Sometimes it's best to keep quiet as a TO instead of creating a bad situation. The shooter will suffer due to TO error.

 

 

Assassin

What? The shooter will suffer due to TO error? The TO created a bad situation? All the TO did was say "one more", and he was right, there was one more. The shooter could have easily picked up the string with his second pistol where he left it with the first pistol then gone back to the first one for the last shot. What sane person would think a TO should have foreseen the shooter would do something like that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is SDQ unsafe gun handling...

 

...and there is MDQ unsafe gun handling.

 

What we are discussing, to me, rises to the MDQ level.

 

SDQ is just not enuff penalty for such a sin.

Lone Dog, I agree with you that SDQ is probably not suffiecient penalty, but.......I dont see a rule that calls for a MDQ for unsafe gun handling on first offence. The way I read it, if a shooter got 2 SDQs for unsafe gune handling, that would equal MDQ. So, in my humble opinion, it would be only a SDQ. But I could be wrong...it has happened before!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? The shooter will suffer due to TO error? The TO created a bad situation? All the TO did was say "one more", and he was right, there was one more. The shooter could have easily picked up the string with his second pistol where he left it with the first pistol then gone back to the first one for the last shot. What sane person would think a TO should have foreseen the shooter would do something like that?

The shooter is ultimately responsible, but I think it's possible that the point Assassin was trying to make is: A pistol string is a string of ten shots that does not have to be shot five consecutive shots from one pistol followed by five consecutive shots from the other. A TO with this knowledge can many times help a shooter avoid (additional) lost time, a procedural, or as in this case, an unsafe act. I always make it a point when teaching RO classes to discuss this very situation.

 

In a perfect world, the TO could have had the shooter pick up with their second gun and shoot targets five through nine, then returned to the first pistol to shoot the tenth target in the string. Of course, rarely is it a perfect world. If I'd been the TO and this had happened, I would have wished that I'd helped the shooter avoid any penalty. But as has been discussed many times, even the best TO's are not perfect. It is obvious to me that the shooter described was shooting double duelist and was pretty fast, so the shooter might have gotten ahead of the TO. Once again, if only the world was perfect. CBB, I'd bet dollars to donuts that I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

Noz covered this in post #20, so I'm simply seconding his motion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont ya just love these hypo's

its all a dream, none of this happened

not even the maybe that I fell a part of -- LOL :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're probably right Buck. I guess I take issue with the statements: 'the shooter will suffer due to TO error' and 'TO...creating a bad situation.'

 

 

The TO knew there was one left, the shooter did not, so from my saddle that's shooter error. The TO correctly informed the shooter he had one left. The shooter responded incorrectly to that pertinent information, again I see that as shooter error.

 

Do you remember the hypothetical coaching you gave Grizz on another thread? I doubt any of us would have time to say, "Look pard, ya got one left, but what you should do is go ahead and finish with the one you have in hand, then fire the last shot from the one you just holstered."

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your remedy, it's what I like to think I would have the presence of mind to do were I the shooter in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a TO I have learned that once a shooter has pulled a pistol to keep my mouth shut.

 

 

one of the few times I manage to do so,,,,,

 

oh quit laffing

 

pbcc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

y

You're probably right Buck. I guess I take issue with the statements: 'the shooter will suffer due to TO error' and 'TO...creating a bad situation.'


The TO knew there was one left, the shooter did not, so from my saddle that's shooter error. The TO correctly informed the shooter he had one left. The shooter responded incorrectly to that pertinent information, again I see that as shooter error.

Do you remember the hypothetical coaching you gave Grizz on another thread? I doubt any of us would have time to say, "Look pard, ya got one left, but what you should do is go ahead and finish with the one you have in hand, then fire the last shot from the one you just holstered."

I wholeheartedly agree with your remedy, it's what I like to think I would have the presence of mind to do were I the shooter in that situation.

Usually the TO is of assistance to the shooter, in this particular case if the TO would have not said anything to the shooter until after firing his second pistol the shooter may not have had any type of penalty. Thus, the TO's poor timing error cost the shooter a major penalty. Captain Burt are you telling me that you've never seen a TO create a bad situation, it happens all the time, usually due to lack of experience? Yes, the shooter was responsible for his own actions!

 

 

Assassin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your right. It's the TO's fault.

It would not be up to the shooter to know that he already has a pistol out and to wait

until it's shot dry to pull the other one. NO. It's the TO's fault. :blink:

Sick of people always trying to blame others for there actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

y

 

Usually the TO is of assistance to the shooter, in this particular case if the TO would have not said anything to the shooter until after firing his second pistol the shooter may not have had any type of penalty. Thus, the TO's poor timing error cost the shooter a major penalty. Captain Burt are you telling me that you've never seen a TO create a bad situation, it happens all the time, usually due to lack of experience? Yes, the shooter was responsible for his own actions!

 

 

Assassin

I understand your point Assassin, but the TO had no way of knowing the shooter would do what he did. The TO, as I'm sure you're aware, can at times have very little time to react and may not be able to give a complicated instruction. If the TO had instructed him to do something that was against the rules, like move with a cocked gun, or instructed him to shoot the wrong target, that would be a different story. From my perspective the shooter's failure to keep count and subsequent poor decision cost him the penalty, not the TO's statement 'one more'.

 

Not long ago during a stage I was called back to a rifle with the exact same statement 'one more'. The rifle was empty and going back to verify it definitely cost me. So yes I've both seen and experienced RO error.

 

I have to respectfully differ from His Royal Purdiness to. ;-). I have seen circumstances where a quick TO can help a shooter with his pistols out. But generally I don't have much to say when pistols are out either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.