The changing face of the Corps

[Utah Bob #35998]

Marine Corps to Open Infantry Officer Course to Women

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Hope they do well...

 

Seems to be doing OK in Israel

 

 

GG ~

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

So do you think that this means that women will be deployed into combat next time?

 

If they want to play soldier/marine/airman they have to do it all!

Combat etc.

[Utah Bob #35998]

So do you think that this means that women will be deployed into combat next time?

 

If they want to play soldier/marine/airman they have to do it all!

Combat etc.

 

Can't say about next time because I don't know when that will be. Next month? Npo. Next year? Probably not. But eventually that day might come.

 

The IDF is composed of about 30% women. They are drafted into service just like the men. The small size of their military and the geopolitical situation there make it much more feasible for women to fill combat roles. The overall atmosphere in this country (and the military) make it more problematic. Time will tell.

Link to IDF info

 

And the women professionals I have known at least, do not "play" at it. They're dead serious.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

I have known about IDF for a while.

I had an Israeli women working for me in a software job about 15 years ago.

She told me that she kept her UZI in a compartment in the trunk of her car.

 

 

I don't really believe that the USA needs women in the military. Just my opinion.

To parphrase a line from a Dirty Harry movie, I think it was "The Enforcer"

Dirty Harry says "This is not some kind of encounter group, out there we get shot for real, do you really know what we do for a living".

Thats about police investigators, not the military, but it seems related.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

Oh Lord..... They're trying to turn my Beloved Corps into Army Pukes....

[Dark Ranger]

I suspect in the next generation the Y chromizone will be mostly gone!Will we ever have to fight our own army?Not one as we know it~

[Oklahomabound]

...some things need not be...

 

...this be one of them...

[Utah Bob #35998]

Oh Lord..... They're trying to turn my Beloved Corps into Army Pukes....

You should be so lucky.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

You should be so lucky.

 

Lucky as in fiberglass strands under my eye lids?????

[Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139]

I think I'll just keep quiet here. The last time I commented on little girls in the military I was fanged pretty hard.

 

However seeing that young "Marine" jumping into his male lover's arms when coming home further convinced me that I would not last too long in today's Marine Corps!

 

PF

[Old Scatterbrain]

Oh Lord..... They're trying to turn my Beloved Corps into Army Pukes....

Unless I missed it, the Army has yet to open combat arms to women.

 

So do you think that this means that women will be deployed into combat next time?

Females may not be allowed in combat arms, but anyone who thinks they are not engaging in combat hasn't been paying attention.

 

If they want to play soldier/marine/airman they have to do it all!

Combat etc.

Most of the females I have known would jump at the chance. Some wouldn't, but then alot of "males" wouldn't either.

 

 

I think any Army or Marine officer of any branch should be allowed, even encouraged, to attend an infantry officer course- so long as that doesn't bump someone else out of the slot.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Call me sexist and old fashioned.....

 

Never mind.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

OS, In my opinion if women want to be in uniform of a combat service, they must do all that the men do for total equality and risk.

They should not be allowed to be officers and get promotions based on non-combat roles.

If they want to be in uniform then the services must become gender blind.

 

As Harry Callahan put it, " ... this is not some kind of encounter group."

[Dark Ranger]

This is where women need to be!And when they are done decoratin get the food on the kitchen table and bring me another beer!

 

[Old Scatterbrain]

OS, In my opinion if women want to be in uniform of a combat service, they must do all that the men do for total equality and risk.

Again, most of the females I have known would jump at the chance. They are not afforded the opportunity. Whether it is wise to allow them the opportunity is a separate issue: I'm just saying it is unfair to criticize them for not doing something they are prohibited from doing.

 

They should not be allowed to be officers and get promotions based on non-combat roles.

Lots of male officers get promoted based on "non-combat" roles.

 

If they want to be in uniform then the services must become gender blind.

I couldn't agree more. Actually, I just wish the military would be any kind of consistent in its treatment of women: on one hand the .mil makes alot of noise about "a Soldier is a Soldier" and how we all should be treated equally, but then they act like females are some sort of bizarre creatures from another dimension who must be completely segregated and protected from their male counterparts.

 

My first tour in Iraq, under no circumstances whatsoever could females be paired together in a truck. It was an absolute imperative that each female be teamed up with a big strong male to take care of her. Six years later, the policy had been completely reversed: Females could only be paired with other females. Under no circumstances could a female be paired with a male, lest he rape and murder his fellow Soldier.

If, for some reason, males and females must be intermingled, a three-person "pairing" is mandatory. They even tried, initially, to tell the two married couples in my unit that they could not be together unless there was a third party with them.

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

In my experience, women are just as dedicated as men, and are eager to take on the same challenges as men. Individuals being what they are, some people, men and women, prefer some jobs to others. When assigned to a job, most of the women I served with did it to the best of their ability, whether it was their prefered job or not.

The only problem that I see with women in a combat MOS is that a soldier has a 35 pound basic load, plus ammunition, plus his/her share of the squad equipment, plus protective gear, helmet and weapon. If you weigh 120 pounds, that is quite a load to hump through the boonies. I weighed 200 pounds and thought it was pretty heavy!

 

Duffield

[Utah Bob #35998]

OS, In my opinion if women want to be in uniform of a combat service, they must do all that the men do for total equality and risk.

They should not be allowed to be officers and get promotions based on non-combat roles.

If they want to be in uniform then the services must become gender blind.

 

As Harry Callahan put it, " ... this is not some kind of encounter group."

 

How much do you know about the military?

There are plenty of male officers in the who serve their entire careers in non-combat roles.

[Old Scatterbrain]

In my experience, women are just as dedicated as men, and are eager to take on the same challenges as men. Individuals being what they are, some people, men and women, prefer some jobs to others. When assigned to a job, most of the women I served with did it to the best of their ability, whether it was their prefered job or not.

The only problem that I see with women in a combat MOS is that a soldier has a 35 pound basic load, plus ammunition, plus his/her share of the squad equipment, plus protective gear, helmet and weapon. If you weigh 120 pounds, that is quite a load to hump through the boonies. I weighed 200 pounds and thought it was pretty heavy!

 

Duffield

Prezactly.

[Utah Bob #35998]

The argument against women in combat usually comes down to physical ability. But that is not always valid. Obviously infantry equipment has evolved based on the male physique so it would not be feasible to expect a 120lb 5ft 2inch woman to be able to perform at that level. But pilots? Naval gunners? There are a number of combat MOS' that have different expectations physically.

And if a large fit woman can in fact perform the same tasks as a male soldier should she be allowed in combat?

 

These questions are pretty tricky based mainly on our preconceived attitudes on gender.

I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions. No matter what you decide, somebody's going to be pissed.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

UB, First of all, women are in the military because they WANT to be in. Not because our country needs them!

It is another example of social engineering that is unnecessary.

They form an unnecessary complication to a traditionally male dominated activity.

The male and female of this species are NOT equal.

If they want true equality they must do all jobs and the services must be gender blind.

[Old Scatterbrain]

The argument against women in combat usually comes down to physical ability. But that is not always valid. Obviously infantry equipment has evolved based on the male physique so it would not be feasible to expect a 120lb 5ft 2inch woman to be able to perform at that level. But pilots? Naval gunners? There are a number of combat MOS' that have different expectations physically.

And if a large fit woman can in fact perform the same tasks as a male soldier should she be allowed in combat?

Gotta agree with this post also. I've known plenty of women I'd be thankful to have behind me on an entry team (and some I don't even like being on the zero range with), and I've known a ton of guys who were way too scrawny or way too wimpy or, well, any number of adjectives to walk all day with a ruck and body armor. On a side note, I think the widespread issue of the M4 over the M16 has been a godsend to women especially.

 

But Bob, where did you find a 5'2" woman who admitted to being 120lbs?

[Jack Houston # 35508]

Why Not?

[Smoken D]

The argument against women in combat usually comes down to physical ability. But that is not always valid. Obviously infantry equipment has evolved based on the male physique so it would not be feasible to expect a 120lb 5ft 2inch woman to be able to perform at that level. But pilots? Naval gunners? There are a number of combat MOS' that have different expectations physically.

And if a large fit woman can in fact perform the same tasks as a male soldier should she be allowed in combat?

 

These questions are pretty tricky based mainly on our preconceived attitudes on gender.

I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions. No matter what you decide, somebody's going to be pissed.

 

Exactly, and in my time like yours I never saw a female in the armed forces except the nurse corps. My expirence with women in hand to hand combat would be on the police department. Never meet one that could take care of herself in that situation, and some would not win the life fight against another woman. Male officer always responded with a female just for her protection and dispatcher would not send one on a call by herself for that very reason. Was always a waste, IMHO, a female district officer. Now, as a homicide/sex unit/juvenile detective, invaluable. Many, many cases a female detective and perspective broke a case, but NOT on the front line, IMHO and experience.

Bob, what was your expirence with females on the PD in a hand to hand situation?

[Utah Bob #35998]

Exactly, and in my time like yours I never saw a female in the armed forces except the nurse corps. My expirence with women in hand to hand combat would be on the police department. Never meet one that could take care of herself in that situation, and some would not win the life fight against another woman. Male officer always responded with a female just for her protection and dispatcher would not send one on a call by herself for that very reason. Was always a waste, IMHO, a female district officer. Now, as a homicide/sex unit/juvenile detective, invaluable. Many, many cases a female detective and perspective broke a case, but NOT on the front line, IMHO and experience.

Bob, what was your expirence with females on the PD in a hand to hand situation?

 

90% of females are just smaller than men. That's biology. I had a few female cops who worked for me that could hold their own in a fight. One could kick my ass. But most unless they have extraordinary defensive training are just not as strong as men. A lot of the problem is psychological. Women are not as used to physical confrontations and contact as men. That's a cultural thing. But they still have been integrated successfully into law enforcement over the years.

In the military hand to hand combat is extremely rare. Much less chance of getting into a one on one than a cop.

[Smoken D]

90% of females are just smaller than men. That's biology. I had a few female cops who worked for me that could hold their own in a fight. One could kick my ass. But most unless they have extraordinary defensive training are just not as strong as men. A lot of the problem is psychological. Women are not as used to physical confrontations and contact as men. That's a cultural thing. But they still have been integrated successfully into law enforcement over the years.

In the military hand to hand combat is extremely rare. Much less chance of getting into a one on one than a cop.

 

Thanks Bob, dang place I came from the women hired could walk down the cat walk. Were hired by looks and were the ones to go up the ranks real fast. Had no business on the street. Just never meet one on that PD that could whoop me and still think the ones I see today couldn't whoop me either. I just shake my head when I see those blonds

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

The argument against women in combat usually comes down to physical ability. But that is not always valid. Obviously infantry equipment has evolved based on the male physique so it would not be feasible to expect a 120lb 5ft 2inch woman to be able to perform at that level. But pilots? Naval gunners? There are a number of combat MOS' that have different expectations physically.

And if a large fit woman can in fact perform the same tasks as a male soldier should she be allowed in combat?

 

These questions are pretty tricky based mainly on our preconceived attitudes on gender.

I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions. No matter what you decide, somebody's going to be pissed.

 

 

UB,

 

I know some women who are Helicopter Pilots. I would cheerfully get in the back seat of a Blackhawk and fly into combat with them, just like I used to do with young men. And if a large, fit woman wants to be an infantry officer (or a private), I would welcome them and serve with them. I also realize that Audie Murphy was so small that several officers and NCOs tried to keep him out of combat, so desire counts for a lot. But there are some roles that a small person of either gender can not reasonably be expected to perform.

 

Duffield