This is Joe's fault

[Alpo]

I was reading his post on grape shot, and got to wondering if the reason the balls were so big was because they needed mass to carry and cause damage. Still being so much lighter than lead. So I look up steel versus lead, and it's about 1/3 lighter (iron masses 71% of lead), so they wouldn't need to make the balls that big for that reason.

 

But then, since I had the various weights of metals right there in front of me --- well, it is early Saturday morning.

 

The Lone Ranger used silver bullets. But he never aimed. Instinctive shooting. How, in reality, would the difference in weight between lead and silver throw him off?

 

The mass of silver, as compared to lead is 92.5%.  

 

So a silver bullet cast in a standard 255 grain 45 Colt bullet mold would weigh 236 grains. Not really enough difference to matter. The Lone Ranger should still be able to instinctively shoot and hit his target.

 

But how about gold?

 

The mass of gold as compared to lead is 171%. Gold is much much heavier. Your standard 255 grain 45 Colt bullet would weigh 435 grains. I wonder how much that would throw someone off.

 

In a Gilligan's Island fantasy episode, they were cowboys. Howell and the professor were the bad guys and Gilligan and the skipper were the good guys. The professor announced that they were going to "fill them full of lead", and Howell disagreed. "Lead? A Howell would never use such a plebeum metal. Gold!"

 

So if someone were to reload, during a firefight, with Thurston the Kid's ammunition, I wonder how badly that would throw them off?

 

And before someone says that they shoot 400 grain bullets in their 45, I'm sure that's true. But you're expecting the recoil and the bullet drop of a 400 grain bullet. Somebody grabbing some of Thurston's ammunition would be expecting the recoil and bullet drop of a 255.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Grape shot was originally for naval combat at ranges from about 50 to 250 yards and meant to tear up masts, yards, and rigging.  Masts aren't exactly small so it takes a good sized ball to really damage it.  

 

Same for the yards.

Edited April 13 by Subdeacon Joe

[Rip Snorter]

39 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Grape shot was originally for naval combat at ranges from about 50 to 250 yards and meant to tear up masts, yards, and rigging.  Masts aren't exactly small so it takes a good sized ball to really damage it.  

 

Same for the yards.

I may be wrong, but I learned that grape was antipersonnel and that chain shot and / or bar shot were designed for rigging destruction in the days of sailing ships.

Edited April 13 by Rip Snorter

[Alpo]

36 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

I may be wrong, but I learned that grape was antipersonnel and that chain shot and / or bar shot were designed for rigging destruction in the days of sailing ships.

My understanding also.

[Cypress Sun]

Will a Colt SAA in .45 Colt shoot a 400+ grain gold bullet more than once? 

 

I mean...before it becomes grapeshot.

 

 

 

 

[Alpo]

Elmer Keith was shooting 405 grain bullets in his Single Action Army. Lead, but still 405 grains. He blew the gun up. Of course he was using 458 diameter 45/70 bullets, instead of 454, and that might have had something to do with it.

 

And he was probably trying for 11 or 1200 feet per second.

 

That's why he went to the 44 Special. 45 Colt cylinder walls weren't thick enough for his hot rodding.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

I may be wrong, but I learned that grape was antipersonnel and that chain shot and / or bar shot were designed for rigging destruction in the days of sailing ships.

 

 

It was a bit of both,  with the various types of bar and chain later being developed primarily for rigging but also pretty good at clearing the deck.  

[PowderRiverCowboy]

MUSEUM MONDAY - ARTIFACT HIGHLIGHT - QUILTED GRAPESHOT

During the Revolutionary War, Army cannoneers used a devastating type of ammunition, called grapeshot, to cut through lines of advancing infantry. It was made of a wooden base, called a sabot, a wooden rod, and a canvas bag filled with iron balls fixed around these wooden parts.

Twine was tied around the outside to help the projectile keep its shape. It was coated with red oxide paint to prevent the shot from rusting. The finished product loosely resembled a bunch of grapes covered by a quilt, giving the projectile its name.

When fired from a cannon, the bag and wooden parts would be blown apart and exit the cannon with the iron balls in a cone of destruction much like the blast of an oversized shotgun.

The effective range of grapeshot was around 300 yards

Edited April 13 by PowderRiverCowboy

[The Blarney Kid]

They used steel because it didn't flatten out and lose velocity when it hit someone. It would penetrate a body and continue on to do more damage to the next rank.

[Trailrider #896]

11 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

Will a Colt SAA in .45 Colt shoot a 400+ grain gold bullet more than once? 

 

I mean...before it becomes grapeshot.

 

 

 

 

Do you mean the gold bullet or the Colt's SAA becoming grape shot...in all directions? 

[Cypress Sun]

27 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Do you mean the gold bullet or the Colt's SAA becoming grape shot...in all directions? 

 

Colt SAA becoming grapeshot. The golden bullet would probably leave the barrel assuming it was sized properly but the SAA's cylinder will more than likely be a hand grenade.

[Alpo]

I don't see why.

 

You can take a 38 special and load it with 110 grain hollow point. Or you can load it with a 200 grain lead bullet. Both of them shoot safely, because you vary the powder charge depending on which bullet you're using.

 

Now if you were to take the powder charge you were going to use with 110 grain hollow point and put that underneath the 200 grain lead bullet - well you might have problems. But use a powder charge consistent with that bullet weight.

 

30/06 can be loaded with 110 grain bullet or a 220 grain bullet, safely. But not with the same powder charge.