Lead Round Nose Projectiles in Tubular Mag

[Pb Mark]

So, I'm working a match at the loading table... A person dumps ten round nose bullets on the loading table and begins to stuff them in their rifle...

 

Look the other way, or say something to the person and the TO?  Unsure what the best move would be?  Flip a coin?

[Cypress Sun]

2 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

So, I'm working a match at the loading table... A person dumps ten round nose bullets on the loading table and begins to stuff them in their rifle...

 

Look the other way, or say something to the person and the TO?  Unsure what the best move would be?  Flip a coin?

 

Unless there is a local/range rule against it, there is no SASS rule against it. Perfectly legal.

[John Kloehr]

There is that nit-picky warning in firearm's owners manuals, but that is the same manual saying one should only use factory ammo, no reloads. So yes agree SASS legal IMO.

 

And I will be ordering presses soon so I can reload ammo for my firearms against the warnings in the manuals for my firearms.

 

Personal responsibility is how I see it. So no, I do not hold the SASS organization responsible for my choices in this sport. And I do not (would not) hold the firearms manufacturers responsible for my choices.

 

I also can not hold a loading table officer responsible for my choices.

 

But dang, I do read the entire manual and take to heart any other sources I can to make sure I am not going to spatter the remains of my knuckles in some TO's face.

 

Because I will be (re)loading my own ammo in the future and I like my knuckles just where they are, and I have seen plenty of guidance to run flat nose in tube magazines due to rare in-battery detonations, I'll do the best I can. To the extent I am going against the manual for my firearms, I do accept responsibility for doing so.

[watab kid]

had no personal experience with an issue caused by RN in tube mag but ive always shot RNFP because that was what i bought first and have continued to use , i have had issues with SWC but feeding not mag tube issues 

[Blackwater 53393]

Having spent several years, occasionally digging brass shards out of my abdomen and groin areas, all of them the result of a multiple magazine detonation, I will testify that even a very small round nose can and will cause such a discharge!!

 

The bullets were classified as RNFP and looking at them, they were as described.  However! They actually had, roughly, a .003” crown on the flat portion and when the follower on my 1860 Henry slipped out of my sweaty fingers and slapped the rubber pad against the top cartridge in a stack of ten, eight of them either went off or were crushed by the explosion.

 

Ruined my day, a pair of pants and a shirt, and nearly ruined my Henry!!

 

Y’all can do any way you please, but if I know about it, I’ll be getting me some distance from you!!

 

 

[Blackwater 53393]

A couple of other observations.

 

The magazine tube on most of the rifles we use are made to hold .45 cal ammunition.  .38 and smaller cartridges often stack up in those mag tubes at angles to each other, making any corner or rim on the flat point into a more pronounced point. This can exacerbate a condition where even some minor jolt could set off a sensitive primer. That could lead to a chain reaction such as I experienced. (I was using and still use Federal primers.) A wider, flatter point on your bullet is a good idea if it doesn’t create feeding problems.

 

In my case, none of the bullets came out of the magazine, but that could definitely happen!!

 

 I really wouldn’t want to be handling the timer for someone using other than flat nosed bullets in a tube magazine rifle.

 

I’ve used up lots of odd shaped bullets in my SASS exploits, but I put ‘em through my pistols.  Why take chances??? 
 

 

[watab kid]

wow , sorry to hear of that misfortunate occurrence blackwater , im not shooting my 1860 these days but i was told to beware of that when i bought it , ive always been cautious with loading it but what you described is exactly what i was told of , thankfully ive never seen it in person , 

i do always recommend to those im discussing reloading with to er on the side of cation , 

 

i have a friend that casts RN and have reloaded with him on occasion , so i do have some RN in my possession , i use them in my revolvers only , AND YES , its a PITA to keep two seperate setups in my loading strips but ive made it work by being deliberate and taking things careful , i only load my rifle with RNFP 

[Shepherd Book]

7 hours ago, watab kid said:

wow , sorry to hear of that misfortunate occurrence blackwater , im not shooting my 1860 these days but i was told to beware of that when i bought it , ive always been cautious with loading it but what you described is exactly what i was told of , thankfully ive never seen it in person , 

i do always recommend to those im discussing reloading with to er on the side of cation , 

 

i have a friend that casts RN and have reloaded with him on occasion , so i do have some RN in my possession , i use them in my revolvers only , AND YES , its a PITA to keep two seperate setups in my loading strips but ive made it work by being deliberate and taking things careful , i only load my rifle with RNFP 

A solution to keeping two different loads, one for pistol and one for rifle, was to use the nickel plated casings in revolvers and the brass in rifles.  Very easy to spot and put in loading blocks.  Of course, there can be other reasons to separate nickel and brass that way even using the same load.  It works for me, using the two types of casings I had on hand when I started CAS.  Just a thought, perhaps for a new shooter.  SB

[Blackwater 53393]

It just shows that even if you try to do everything right , sometimes bad things can happen!

 

Why not try to make decisions that are conducive to lowering the chances of a catastrophe??

 

The maker of the bullets that I was using when the incident occurred had his mold corrected to take out the crown.  The new profile was absolutely flat.

 

 

 

[Griff]

I believe the slipping of the follower had more to do with the detonation than the ever so slight crown on the bullets... it didn't help for sure, but even dead flat nose bullets are susceptible to detonation with the force of the follower and spring in the 1860... happened before.  That force is greater due to the velocity the follower gains in the tube length.  A stack of bullets in magazine with the follower holding them in place don't have the room to develop any velocity to have enough force to ignite the primer.  With a hard bullet, a soft primer, and hard recoil... yes a round nose bullet can, and has, detonated the cartridge in front of it.  almost always with injury and damage to handler & gun.  A thing to be avoided, and easily avoided.  

[watab kid]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:32 AM, Shepherd Book said:

A solution to keeping two different loads, one for pistol and one for rifle, was to use the nickel plated casings in revolvers and the brass in rifles.  Very easy to spot and put in loading blocks.  Of course, there can be other reasons to separate nickel and brass that way even using the same load.  It works for me, using the two types of casings I had on hand when I started CAS.  Just a thought, perhaps for a new shooter.  SB

thats a good visible way , ive used leather loading strips so i can see the bullets , i just have to pay attention and not be chatting at the loading table  :>}