H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 You may have seen my thread about creating a new .45 cartridge by trimming the .45-70 back to .45 Colt length. It was mostly a thought experiment idea and a what if type of scenario. Tangentially related to it, I found myself thinking today that there is really no practical need for any "new" cartridges in the CAS arena. For any theoretical new cartridge that you would care to think of for whatever reason, there is probably already a similar cartridge that exists that would fill the same "niche" as the idea for a new one. For example, the following pistol cartridges already exist and have one or more functions within our game. .32 S&W .32 S&W Long .32 H&R Magnum .32-20 .38 S&W .38 Short Colt .38 Long Colt .38 Special .357 Magnum .38-40 .41 Long Colt .41 Magnum .44-40 .44 Russian .44 Special .44 Magnum .45 Cowboy Special .45 Scofield .45 Colt. Throw in .25-20 and 56-50 Spencer and that's all the "main match" type calibers that exist. And yes all of the above can be used in different main match revolvers. Some also in pocket pistols. Let's add .45 ACP to the mix due to Wild Bunch, and the fact that some pards do modify their rifles to shoot this round. While we are at it, we can also consider things like .455 Webley, .32 Nagant, .45 Autorim, and perhaps a handful of other rare but still usable for our purposes cartridges. By the same token, there are handful of "automatic" pistol cartridges that have found their way into our game, and others could as well. Things like .380 come to mind. I could see a place for .38 ACP/.38 Super or even 9mm or .40 S&W if someone had a mind to play with those. So with all of that mind, is there really any need, besides the "fun" of self tinkering and creating one, for a new cartridge? It seems to me that one of the above will do whatever it is you want your new cartridge to do with far fewer problems. If you look for it online, you can find an example of someone who created a reproduction Volcanic that ran on shortened .40 S&W rounds. My reaction to that was, wasn't their something on the above list that could have been used? My own idea for the shortened .45-70 is another one that really comes down to, why go to the effort? If you want an extra oomph big bore cartridge, you can always go with the .44 Magnum. Or even .454 Casull if you want a .45. (But that does start to push the boundaries of what is actually usable in our game.) Now, don't get me wrong, if you like tinkering and experimenting and want to create a new cartridge for fun, then more power to you. But when you consider the reality of what already exists, and what the theoretical use for your new cartridge would be, isn't there something already existing on the shelf that you could make use of to simplify things somewhat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I always liked the one shown in one of the gun magazines (for April 1st): .50 BMG necked down to .17 caliber. I think it was called the ".17 Eargesplitten Louden Boomer"! I think it was slightly over-bore-capacity, and the life of the rifling in the barrel was about one shot! Don't recall what they proposed using for powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 9mm is already in use in Ruger 357 with a 9mm cylinder. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 If I ever figure out how to make it and am retired and looking for a hobby, I might try to build a volcanic and some .44 cal rocketball ammunition for a match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, El CupAJoe said: If I ever figure out how to make it and am retired and looking for a hobby, I might try to build a volcanic and some .44 cal rocketball ammunition for a match... 1. Get just a frame for an 1860 Henry that has never been finished into a rifle. 2. Put a 12" Barrel on it. 3. Fit it with a pistol grip. 4. Modify the lever so it is a ring instead of a loop. Wahlah! You now have a .44-40 "almost a Volcanic" pistol that you made yourself. Alternate, chop an existing rifle and pay the $200 tax to register it as an SBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Just now, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: 1. Get just a frame for an 1860 Henry that has never been finished into a rifle. 2. Put a 12" Barrel on it. 3. Fit it with a pistol grip. 4. Modify the lever so it is a ring instead of a loop. Wahlah! You now have a .44-40 "almost a Volcanic" pistol that you made yourself. Alternate, chop an existing rifle and pay the $200 tax to register it as an SBR. yeah, but who wants to deal with those pesky self contained brass cartridge things. who needs brass when you can put all your boomy stuff in the lead all by itself! thinking about modifying a hollow based wadcutter or minie ball mold as the basis for the ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, El CupAJoe said: yeah, but who wants to deal with those pesky self contained brass cartridge things. who needs brass when you can put all your boomy stuff in the lead all by itself! thinking about modifying a hollow based wadcutter or minie ball mold as the basis for the ammunition. Eh... The original rocketball ammo never really worked all that well. I don't see how a modern version of it could either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said: I always liked the one shown in one of the gun magazines (for April 1st): .50 BMG necked down to .17 caliber. I think it was called the ".17 Eargesplitten Louden Boomer"! I think it was slightly over-bore-capacity, and the life of the rifling in the barrel was about one shot! Don't recall what they proposed using for powder. Sittin around one night sampling a little sauce, a couple of us came up with the ultimate varmit cartridge. A .50 BMG necked down to an RCA victrola needle. Good for about 11,000 fps we figured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 .38 WCF ... Aka .38 - 40 Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 2/9/2021 at 6:09 AM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: You may have seen my thread about creating a new .45 cartridge by trimming the .45-70 back to .45 Colt length. It was mostly a thought experiment idea and a what if type of scenario. Tangentially related to it, I found myself thinking today that there is really no practical need for any "new" cartridges in the CAS arena. For any theoretical new cartridge that you would care to think of for whatever reason, there is probably already a similar cartridge that exists that would fill the same "niche" as the idea for a new one. For example, the following pistol cartridges already exist and have one or more functions within our game. .32 S&W .32 S&W Long .32 H&R Magnum .32-20 .38 S&W .38 Short Colt .38 Long Colt .38 Special .357 Magnum .38-40 .41 Long Colt .41 Magnum .44-40 .44 Russian .44 Special .44 Magnum .45 Cowboy Special .45 Scofield .45 Colt. Throw in .25-20 and 56-50 Spencer and that's all the "main match" type calibers that exist. Let's add .45 ACP to the mix due to Wild Bunch, and the fact that some pards do modify their rifles to shoot this round. While we are at it, we can also consider things like .455 Webley, .32 Nagant, .45 Autorim... A few more - .32 acp - 1895 Nagant convertible cylinder, plus there's enough of a rim to work in .32 H&R mag revolvers, so...? .327 Federal .380acp - Maybe... I think the 1862 was ruled not to be a main match revolver, and I can't think of another .380 single action...? .357 Maximum 10mm .460 S&W - Is there anything that rules out the BFR in .460? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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