Are there ways to help a counter(s)to see a miss(s)

[Ramblin Gambler]

Last weekend I loaded up a couple of rounds with dirt instead of lead.  I'm thinking that was not a good way to help the spotters.  Even after I told them after the first one they still got fooled by the other 2.  They sure had egg on their faces!  But i had misses on the score sheet.  I think I'm going to go back to loading magnets. 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

This weekend I was a TO the shooter ended I asked the spotters whats the call. Three spotters and I got a 1, a 2, and a 3. I said really. I mentioned the discussion on the wire and seeing not listening to the posse.  The shooter got 2 misses. 

Another shooter, the dirt flew left and high of the target. As the TO, don't yell at me for watching the shot, I also saw the dirt fly low right under the target. I asked the spotters. I got 2 with 1 miss and one with clean. The clean call had a better "view" of the target. He said it was an edger and pointed out the mark on the edge of the target.  The edger made no "clang". Call was then clean. Point here was the other two didn't have a clean view and reacted to the dirt in the distance. But the location of the dirt flying would have meant the shooter really "missed" bad. That should have been an indicator to question an edger causing it.

 

Back to my original post. See the target, watch the dirt, and ignore the clang BS. And stop socializing if you're a counter.

Ike

[Oklahoma Dee]

Shooters that are counting...... need better training and understanding of what is the best way to count on any given stage.   

 

When you take in the weather conditions(such as...cold, humidity, fog. heat, rain, wind, sleet, snow, dust, blue sky, cloudy days, etc), smoke from guns, loud bangs versus little bangs, target movement or lack of, dead targets, color of targets, shape of targets, dirt surrounding targets, grass surrounding targets, edge shots, velocities of ammo, distractions, viewpoint/location to count from, ability to see, ability to hear, ability to understand physics, how to know when one does not see or hear a target being hit...simply does not mean it was a miss......just to name some of the factors that go into a counter making a judgement call at a shooting match.....maybe we are not helping counters to do the best job of counting.  

 

How do we empower them to be able to make these calls?  

 

It seems, in the past, new shooters were pretty much thrown in as a counter with no idea as to what to look for or to focus on. 

 

To ask a new shooter to understand the concept of watching a group of targets, then attempt at seeing a hit versus a miss, and everything that goes into making that decision ( a personal decision at that ) has to be somewhat crazy and over taxing to their system ( eyes, ears, mind that have never dealt with this type of action ).  Whenever you see a counter looking around to see what other counters are holding up, or they seem dazed or confused, I would say they are overtaxed and have little clue as to what to see or look for, much less what to call.

 

Throw them into a major match or with some shooters that a moving quickly and shooting quickly.....No wonder some counters cannot grasp what the shooter did, much less count misses or procedures or safety procedures.

 

When I was Range Master, and had a new shooter(s) to qualify for that days shooting match.  Maybe just making sure they have safe gun handling and have an understanding how to load and unload firearms,  IS SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH!  Maybe we need to instruct them on the art of being a productive posse member from the get-go.  Have an assigned experienced shooter(s) to escort them during that day's shooting activities.  To point out various duties and responsibilities of the posse member.  How to adjust their eyes,ears, feet and mind to counting the required number of shots from each firearm.  What targets are being engaged and how to know the difference. 

 

There has to be a better way to help the new shooter(s) and current shooters that needs help in becoming a better counter and better posse members, then what I can see at the clubs I attend.

 

May never happen, or it may be happening right now.  Maybe, it is, what it is, and will never get better?!

 

Thanks to those that had input into this subject.

 

Oklahoma Dee

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I always want the spotters spread out, especially if they are spotting for a Soot Lord!

In the case of a Soot Lord, I try to position myself upwind, if possible.

When we notice spotters getting less attentive, we will switch them off to do something else.

[Ramblin Gambler]

When I was new, they wanted me to count but I didn't have faith I could do it right.  So instead I just practice counted for a while and compared my results to everyone else and asked questions of the spotters while the next shooter was getting ready.  I don't see any better way to learn to count than on the job training. 

[Kirk James]

Ever one is coming up with great ideas concerning being an excellent spotter.  Now we need to be able to put something in place.  Otherwise they die out as the subject dies out.   Do we need some type of training certification to be a spotter at important matches?  If we can't paint, can we train.  This could start out as a handbook or video.  Could clubs provide certification that an individual displays all the character traits and proves to them an individual is a great spotter.  If we cannot paint does anyone have any ideas on how to put the information in this thread and others into practice?  We do it with RO training.  Maybe training could occur at each club using a consistent handbook.  I hate to stop at a low note.  Lets solve this one.  Remember rank points?  It only took ten years!!!!

[Big Rock, SASS #44055]

If everyone would just follow the miss flow chart and if they would ONLY say what they see when they saw it and not rely on others, it would be a non-issue ...

 

But as my father always used to say, "IF the dog wouldn't have stopped to take a sh**, he would have caught the rabbit!"