Fairshake Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I've posted a post about wanting to return to SASS shooting after taking about two years off due to a major medical problem. I've had some good offers and others that were meant well but real close to being retail. My hardest thing has been to find some 44WCF revolvers that are true 44-40 and not 44 magnum for sale. All the revolvers being offered have .431 cylinder mouths and bores to match or they are larger. I can't shoot my BP loads with a .429 bullet down a .432 bore. To you who shoot and cast, you know of what I'm speaking. If you know where I may be able to find the revolvers I'm looking for, please contact me. I need some help. Thanks to everyone Fairshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I'm not real sur what the problem actually is. Before retiring, I worked as a CAS Gunsmith for over 16 years. The vast majority of reproduction SA guns were/are produced with .429 bores. Not true to original bore of .427/.428. Manufacturers have standardized on the .429 bore to simplify manufacturing and bullet selection across the board. Cylinder throat size however, can be all over. Usually a bit undersized to the bore, calling for reaming to .4295 or .430, to shoot 429 or 430 bullets. After the cylinder is matched to the bore, use an appropriate size bullet mold. A .431 cylinder is still quite acceptable for .429 or .430 bores. When you run into a gun with a bore over .430, pass on it. Frankly, I haven't seen a 44-40 with a bore over .430 Again, the most common failing is undersized cylinder throats, easily fixed. Coffinmaker PS: NONE of the manufacturers consistently deliver correct throat to barrel dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 I've have been to several Factory schools and was an armorer for many years. You are not correct in saying that all gun makers have decided to use the .430 bore as the new standard. USFA made guns that were true to size as I owned two sets before becoming ill and having to sell them. It is evident that you neither shoot real BP or do your own casting.I have several hundred dollars of custom molds that drop a .430 bullet that is sized to .429 to load with 2F powder. If I shoot a .429 bullet down a bore of .431, I will then have a barrel full of lead to clean. I talked to the new owner of Long Hunters and told me that Uberti had let the 44WCF go out of size and that they were being made with the .431 bores. The reason for this is that they can just make one barrel and put it on the 44mag, 44 spl. and the 44WCF. It is a sad thing when money over takes Quality. Later Fairshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Fairshake, There is a fellow here in town that has a pair of USFA Rodeos in 44 WCF, they are 4.75" barrels, I think he wants big $ since USFA is out of the SAA business. Send me a PM and I get you his phone # here in AZ if you want to talk with him. He is not a SASS shooter, guns were not shot al lot. These guns are true to size! TB PS I have 3 braces of Colts and USFAs in 44WCF, and NO they are not for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 I thank you a lot for taking time to answer my request. I have looked at Long Hunters and his Uberti's are .431 and also at Taylor's with the same results. Buffalo Arms advised they had some but I can't check back with them until Monday. I sold my last pair of USFA's for $1500 so that my wife and I could buy groceries. I'm afraid that the price on those guns are no longer in my reach. Thanks again Fairshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I didn't know Uberti had .431" barrels on the 44-40? I was under the impression they were .429" and or up to .430" I have a couple 44-40 BP customers. They shoot .427" and .428" with zero leading! Just had a discussion yesterday with Mule Skinner about this topic. I've decided to stock a .428" standard size on the shelf. I'm of the belief that a .428" bullet made with little softer lead, softer lube will work great with no leading. Regards, Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 For what it's worth I shoot .430 bullets in all my .44-40 revolvers. One pair of Taylor's Smoke Wagons, a pair of Cimarron's and a Colt 3rd gen. Two 73's Uberti's also. All shoot fine with .430 bullets. BP or smokeless. Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parson John Tourmann, #67768 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Agree with Miles.Had a Uberti Henry that I got used from a NON SASS shooter. Gave me a bunch of loads,NON would shoot in a 6" circlee at 20yds. Called Cimmerom,all Ubertis in that eara were 429 bores. 430 bullets shoot jut great in all revs and rifles I own. Just my 1 cent worht. Parson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 I thank the persons who have posted answers, but there is a problem with some of the answers. Not every gun made by any gun company is the same as the ones that were made at a different time. When you have a production line, machinery changes overtime. I have been to several Gun Factory Armorer schools while working in law enforcement. I have attended 5 S&W schools, Sig, Ithaca, Ruger, Remington and the instructors tell you that. It stands to reason as the auto industry is the same. I did not start this posting to debate what others have done or are doing. I was stating what I had found in my search for some new to me revolvers and a rifle. If some of the posters would have read all of my postings you would have seen where I cast my own bullets out of 20-1 alloy that I make myself. 20-1 alloy has been the standard for making BP bullets for many years. It's my own design that I had Tom at Accurate molds make many years ago. I have always had 44WCF firearms that slugged at .4275 and I have shot thousands of rounds of bullets sized at .429 with out any signs of blow-back or leading. I posted this posting because I was being offered guns that were of .430-.431 in size and I was seeking some help in finding guns with the correct bore size so that it would work with all of my other equipment, not looking for debate on the what works for me subject. I have located a rifle and two revolvers that meet my standards on size. I thank everyone who took the time to try and help me get back into shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I just got a pair of Vaqueros in 44-40 and the cylinder throats are .425 as is the bore as well.My 66 barrel is .427 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 For what it is worth, when most guys slug their barrels and measure the slug, they are almost always measuring groove size. So if your 66 has a .427 bore size, the groove size is probably around .429-.430. So .429 bullets will work well. So when a guy says he slugged and measured the bore and it came to .430-.431, it probably really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I thank the persons who have posted answers, but there is a problem with some of the answers. Not every gun made by any gun company is the same as the ones that were made at a different time. When you have a production line, machinery changes overtime. I have been to several Gun Factory Armorer schools while working in law enforcement. I have attended 5 S&W schools, Sig, Ithaca, Ruger, Remington and the instructors tell you that. It stands to reason as the auto industry is the same. I did not start this posting to debate what others have done or are doing. I was stating what I had found in my search for some new to me revolvers and a rifle. If some of the posters would have read all of my postings you would have seen where I cast my own bullets out of 20-1 alloy that I make myself. 20-1 alloy has been the standard for making BP bullets for many years. It's my own design that I had Tom at Accurate molds make many years ago. I have always had 44WCF firearms that slugged at .4275 and I have shot thousands of rounds of bullets sized at .429 with out any signs of blow-back or leading. I posted this posting because I was being offered guns that were of .430-.431 in size and I was seeking some help in finding guns with the correct bore size so that it would work with all of my other equipment, not looking for debate on the what works for me subject. I have located a rifle and two revolvers that meet my standards on size. I thank everyone who took the time to try and help me get back into shooting What kind of guns are they?? .430-.431 seems a little large! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Rye, The guns that I was offered that had the bores of 431 were Uberti Cattlemen revolvers and a Chippa 92 rifle. I even called and spoke to the new owner of Long Hunters, a man named Fritzgerald IIRC. He told me that he had just received some new guns in and that was the measurement. Now I agree with Springfield on people not coming up with the correct numbers so I don't ask them to use calipers or anything like that. I have them take a .429 bullet and try to drop it through the cylinders and barrels. If it drops through, it's not a gun that I want. I called and also spoke with the gunsmith at Taylors and he told me that he had some Smokewagons that were true to size. I had a friend with an FFL order them and I just received them last night. I have some 44 slugs that were made for checking the bores by slugging and I did that to both guns. I came up with .427 on both and I'm now a happy person again. I also received the older Interarms 92 that I purchased from Barkeep Casey and it is also true to size. They have many newer shooters who have purchased Marlin rifles in what is sold as a 44WCF but the factory decided some years back to just make one barrel for it's 44 caliber guns to save time and moneyThe early Marlins are true to size and excellent rifles except for the throwing of the brass, forward and to the right. I lost many a case at matches when I was shooting a Marlin. Take Care my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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