Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The more I handle and shoot the Cowboy .45 Special (C45S), the more I like it. I'm wanting to load up a few 'hot' loads using some jacketed bullets for use other than CAS. Anyhow, I use to shoot a nice Springfield .45 SUPER and it was awesome. I was thinking about using some C45S brass and loading up some similar loads for my Rugers and Marlin. In looking at some available bullets, I find some good stuff in both the .451 and .452 sizes. The Hornady XTP 185 & 200 grainers are .451 (I prefer to use the lighter bullets) The Hornady XTP 240's and up are .452 The Hornady FTX bullet has the 'FLEX TIP' and comes in 200 grains at .452 Can someone share some knowledgable info as to the pros/cons of using either the .451 or .452 in the revolver and Marlin? Much obligued. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hey Widder, I think you are seeing that the heavier bullets which are more likely to be shot in a rifle are sized larger so that they will stay engaged with the rifling and not streak out at rifle velocities. Short barrels probably don't have this problem. My cowboy guns like .452 lead bullets in either pistol or rifle probably for the opposite reason as the soft lead may jump over the rifling in a 4 -5/8" barrel, but probably not at 75-80 PF? Either way you can load some and see how they work for you. I would buy for whichever one you are interested in shooting the most... Good Luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 For a proper fit of both Lead & jacketed it is wise to slug the bore & measure the cylinder throats. Cylinder throats can vary several thousands either way +-. I have a Uberti/Cimarron 45 Colt that has a very tight bore, .450" with cylinder throats of .4505". I shoot .452" sized lead & .451" jacketed. Nosler makes a 250 gr. JHP for the 45 Colt, sized .451". This bullet is a tack driver in my piece. This is the only 45 Colt caliber I own, my prefered caliber is 44. However this Revolver out shoots any of my other Revolvers. It even out shoots my Custom Shop Colt 44 SAA's. Every piece has it's own varied deminsions and likes, as to what it will digest accuracy and preformance wise. It is up to we the shooter for this determination to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 If you are loading jacketed properly, with a warm load, a .451 jacketed bullet will, except for the very strongest construction, bump up to fill a reasonable bore diameter. Most of the bullets you listed work very well out of a .45 auto case. They will work just as fine out of Cowboy .45 Special. Nothing to worry about, choose the bullet design you like. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The more I handle and shoot the Cowboy .45 Special (C45S), the more I like it. I'm wanting to load up a few 'hot' loads using some jacketed bullets for use other than CAS. Anyhow, I use to shoot a nice Springfield .45 SUPER and it was awesome. I was thinking about using some C45S brass and loading up some similar loads for my Rugers and Marlin. In looking at some available bullets, I find some good stuff in both the .451 and .452 sizes. The Hornady XTP 185 & 200 grainers are .451 (I prefer to use the lighter bullets) The Hornady XTP 240's and up are .452 The Hornady FTX bullet has the 'FLEX TIP' and comes in 200 grains at .452 Can someone share some knowledgable info as to the pros/cons of using either the .451 or .452 in the revolver and Marlin? Much obligued. ..........Widder Not trying to be contrary, but I think what you said is you want to take shortened .45 Colt ammo and load it backup into something stouter than the .45 ACP load it mostly already duplicates? Would taking a .45 Colt case and filling it with the appropriate powder get you there with less risk and more data to begin experimenting with? On the face of it you took a .454 Big block out of your car, put in a 283, and now want to hot rod it back up to 454 performance. Anyway - let us know how it turns out - I'm always curious about this stuff! Shadow Catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Widder !! I'll have to agree with ShadowCatcher here for the most part. As to the 451/452 question, USUALLY, jacketed bullets of 451 are best in all 45's with standard size bores. The same guns will usually do best with lead bullets of 452. This has been my experience over the years. YMMV RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Also the 45 Schofield case will do all that the 45 cowboy does and it has been around quite a while. T J B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If you want a "hot" load why not just use the original magnum; 45 Colt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Not trying to be contrary, but I think what you said is you want to take shortened .45 Colt ammo and load it backup into something stouter than the .45 ACP load it mostly already duplicates? Would taking a .45 Colt case and filling it with the appropriate powder get you there with less risk and more data to begin experimenting with? On the face of it you took a .454 Big block out of your car, put in a 283, and now want to hot rod it back up to 454 performance. Anyway - let us know how it turns out - I'm always curious about this stuff! Shadow Catcher +1 Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Widder, .451 Jacketed will be fine. I run 230gr. XTPs designed for use in ACP at 1400 fps out of the Marlin The recipe I use is around 25K pressure, NOT for toggle links or colt clones, (Marlin or ruger only). They expand violently as the thin-skinned design is meant for 800fps and up. The heavier .45 Colt JHPs will want a LOT of velocity to open reliably. They're basically clones of .44 mag designs that work well in hell for leather ruger only loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Gulch, SASS #53035 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Widder, wish I had seen this thread before you came by this evening. I have several jacketed .451 versions you could give a try. I'll give you a call tommorrow if my guns don't freeze to my hands and my feet to the ground. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks everyone.....and I do mean 'everyone'. Let me share alittle more info. As most of you might already know, I've modified my Marlin 1894 to reliably feed the C45S size cartridge. It is a special run Marlin a few years back that has a round barrel and rifle configuration (no barrel bands) and, it has a factory 16.25" barrel. This little Widdermatic is nice. About as nice as you'll ever handle. AND, it will hold 11 (yes, eleven) of the C45S rounds. And besides Cowboy shootin, I plan to use it for other things out on the farm like scarin the coyotes away and those killer groundhogs we have in E.TN. So its not that I'm tryin to cut down the .45 Colt and reinvent its performance abilities but rather take advantage of a great little rifle and cartridge and having the ability to have it perform for all around usages. For those who expressed interest like ShawdowCatcher, I will gladly share info on what I test with it, etc....(velocities, powders, bullet weights). Like many others, I enjoy learning more about my options with things like this and living where I do, it allows me to try a few things on a Sunday, reload and try again on Monday. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks everyone.....and I do mean 'everyone'. Let me share alittle more info. As most of you might already know, I've modified my Marlin 1894 to reliably feed the C45S size cartridge. It is a special run Marlin a few years back that has a round barrel and rifle configuration (no barrel bands) and, it has a factory 16.25" barrel. This little Widdermatic is nice. About as nice as you'll ever handle. AND, it will hold 11 (yes, eleven) of the C45S rounds. And besides Cowboy shootin, I plan to use it for other things out on the farm like scarin the coyotes away and those killer groundhogs we have in E.TN. So its not that I'm tryin to cut down the .45 Colt and reinvent its performance abilities but rather take advantage of a great little rifle and cartridge and having the ability to have it perform for all around usages. For those who expressed interest like ShawdowCatcher, I will gladly share info on what I test with it, etc....(velocities, powders, bullet weights). Like many others, I enjoy learning more about my options with things like this and living where I do, it allows me to try a few things on a Sunday, reload and try again on Monday. ..........Widder Widder, look to .45 Super data and Power Pistol (my favorite for warm loads in short cases from .380 on up) or Unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 AJ: you're right about Power Pistol. That stuff was my favorite powder in the .45 Super when I really wanted to max it out. It will be my obvious 1st choice when I get me some different bullets to try out. That Hornady 'flex tip' bullet looks like its a 'must try'. I've always like the performance of the Speer Gold Dot also and probably need to try some of those. That little 16.25" Marlin using your famous C45S cartridge should be a smoker when using some hot stuff. Many thanks ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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