Buckshot Frank Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I shot a few matches with my '73 with just the Slix Springs installed and action smoothed. Currently, the lever stroke is too light and too long in my opinion. I'm definitely sure that I want to short stroke it, and I plan to use the Pioneer Gun Works kit. I need to decide between the short stroke kit and the super short stroke kit. The advantages of the super short stroke kit are obvious, but are there any advantages to the standard short stroke kit (more reliable)? What is your preference?
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 When ya cycle a 73, a fixed amount of work has to be done. By reducing the lever throw, you still have to do the same amount of work, so it's kinda like starting off in 2nd gear, ya have more resistance that will be felt at the lever. At some point as ya shorten the lever throw, ya end up with a heavier, somewhat uneven (lumpy) resistance that MAY not be to your liking. Many find the standard short stroke the best compromise, and the super short stroke a little stiff compared to their slick long stroke guns.
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I shot a few matches with my '73 with just the Slix Springs installed and action smoothed. Currently, the lever stroke is too light and too long in my opinion. I'm definitely sure that I want to short stroke it, and I plan to use the Pioneer Gun Works kit. I need to decide between the short stroke kit and the super short stroke kit. The advantages of the super short stroke kit are obvious, but are there any advantages to the standard short stroke kit (more reliable)? What is your preference? Are you going to put the kit in yourself? Are you familiar with action work on a 73? With the super short kit the timing is more critical and everything else in the gun (mainspring, etc.) needs to be tuned to make the most effective use of the super short stroke. With the super short stroke there is less mechanical advantage when you are levering so without tuning other parts, the levering effort can be higher than a regular short stroke.
Buckshot Frank Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 I'll be doing the work myself. I'm familiar enough with the '73 that I feel comfortable trying the install/timing myself. There is a good set of instructions on Pioneer's website, and if I get stuck I can always ask questions here. I enjoy working on my guns, and it's a good way to learn about them. I will sometimes buy a gun just because I know that it needs a lot of work . It sounds like the standard short stroke kit might be a good compromise. I'm currently leaning towards that one until someone changes my mind.
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I just went from a 2nd generation short stroke to a 5th generation short stroke. I had the same concerns as you about moving to a shorter stroke. I did my research and got sound advice and information from the people on here, BUT , the final choice must be yours. Although I have Cowboy & Indian Kits from Jim Bowie I'm sure all the top kits are quality ones and brand name should not make a difference in your choice. I was originally leaning towards not going for the shortest stroke kit but after testing some friends guns I felt there wasn't a BIG change for me. Now for you going to a short stroke from stock is starting at a different level. Bottom line advice - try some short strokes and see how they feel. If you have to learn from stock action you might decide to relearn using a super short stroke. I used mine today for the first time and am very happy. You could also go with a standard kit then when you where proficient with that go for a super short stroke for a small cost. The proof is in the puddin!!! This note is worth exactly what you paid for it!!! Good Luck Colt
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 The nicest rifle I have handled (thus far) had a forth generation short stroke from Cowboys and Indians. That kit is no longer available, but my gunsmith tells me the 5th generation can be equally as nice, but requires more attention to be properly tuned. When he tunes one, he replaces more than just the links. If you're not really, really fast, until you are really, really fast, you'll shoot one short stroke as fast as you will another. FWIW, if I was starting over at this point, I'd get a 5th generation from C & I and my second choice would be a super short stroke from Pioneer. That does not mean that the C & I is "better," it's just my preference.
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 The nicest rifle I have handled (thus far) had a fourth genration short stroke from Cowboys and Indians. That kit is no longer available, but my gunsmith tells me the 5th generation can be equally nice, but requires more attention to be properly tuned. When he tunes one, he replaces more than just the links. If you're not really, really fast, until you are really, really fast, you'll shoot one short stroke as fast as you will another. FWIW, if I was starting over at this point, I'd get a 5th generation form C & I and my seond choice would be a super short stroke from Pioneer. That does not mean that the C &I is "better," it's just my preference. Howdy Buck - I had my 5th gen put in right after Winter Range. Now Buckshot Frank I can tell you that C&I are going to making the 3rd generation kit available again - right from Jim Bowie. I was also told by some fellas about the differences between the 4th and fifth generation kit BUT not having experienced it myself will not get into that. What I can tell you is that the new 5th generation is as easy to lever as my 3rd generation SS was. Are you confused enough yet? Like I said before get to a match or two and try some to see for yourself!!! Take your time deciding and you'll get a more harmonious outcome!
Cowboy Junky Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I've shot both and couldn’t really see a difference in speed (in a match). You might see a fraction of a second IF you can run the rifle close to WR speed and are putting them all on one target but when you have multiple targets in a match it's not going to matter enough to worry about (IMO). I would go with what feels the best to you. You said you didn’t like the light feel of your gun you might like the SS because it has a heavier feel to it.
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 Third Gen from Cowboys and Indian Store...great links!!!!!!!!!! Though I do enjoy my two 5th Gens
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 It may depend on what caliber your shooting. Super Short Strokes don't necessarily work as well with large bore guns. When building guns, I prefer to put the equivalent of a Third Generation kit in large bore guns for more mechanical advantage. I do like Super Short in .38s Coffinmaker
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 I've shot both and couldn’t really see a difference in speed (in a match). You might see a fraction of a second IF you can run the rifle close to WR speed and are putting them all on one target but when you have multiple targets in a match it's not going to matter enough to worry about (IMO). I would go with what feels the best to you. You said you didn’t like the light feel of your gun you might like the SS because it has a heavier feel to it. +1 I started with a Pioneer short stroke and moved to a Pioneer Super Short Stroke (which is what I now use in both my rifles) If the gun is properly tuned the difference in lever effort is so small when running at speed that I do not even notice it. Regards Gateway Kid
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