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Oklahoma Dee

Winchester Reloading Hand Tools - 38-40

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Well, its not rocket science to use one, :lol: but... sometimes it is best to see or hear what others have done.

I am lookin at using one to load up a limited number of 38-40 rounds.

 

I appreciate any insightful logical information!

 

Oklahoma Dee

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Howdy

 

Huh???? Want to clue us in on exactly what type of hand tool you are talking about?

 

Lyman Hand Tool

 

Classic Lee Reloader

 

Something else maybe?

 

 

I have never tried the Lyman tool, but I'll bet your hand will get awful tired awful quick using one.

 

I do not recommend the Lee tool. I had one many years ago that I used for 30-30. I don't recommend any reloading tool that requires you to hammer the bullet in place.

 

I prefer a bench mounted press, no matter how cheap, to a hand tool.

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Hey There Driftwood Johnson, Thanks for the reply!

 

The one I am looking at working with, is a Winchester, somewhat like the Lyman Hand Tool you put out there.

 

I do have the single stage press, that I could use, but was interested in doing some with this one. It would be more of a "see how they did it, in the old days" kinda project.

 

I surely will not be hammering on anything with Black Powder and a primer! :o

 

Cheers,

Oklahoma Dee

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I have one for 38-55 but have not tried it yet. I plan to in the near future though just to see how well it works.

 

Does yours have the decapping pin? Often those are missing.

 

I do have a Word file with the instructions if you need them.

 

1894 loading tool

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Oklahoma, it oughtta be fun!

 

Again, although not a Winchester tool, I started loading as a teenager using a Lyman 310 tong tool for .30-30's. Very slow, but an enjoyable process. And although not "correct," I used fffg black powder - it's what I happened to have, and it made a really cool impression on folks at the range back in 1970.

 

One thought, though... I do not know about the Winchester tool, but the Lyman dies would neck size only. Not a problem as long as you shoot 'em in only one rifle.

 

Have fun with it! ^_^

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Lee Hand Press

 

Here is a neat little "hand" press. it is Lees version of the Lyman hand loader. I think it is better than the "pound em in pound em out" loaders (altho I loaded hundreds of rounds with them in the early days.) the hand press is only $41 (or $60 with accessories) I have a friend that does all his loading on one...

 

good shootin

curley

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Well, I did it last night. Sitting around in Houston....gettin dark, chilly, wife is leavin me alone :D , son is testing his ears pressure :o - again with loud music.

 

Works like a charm. Really, the only thing I had to do with the single stage press, was to widen the mouth of the brass. Everything else, the hand tool did it. Measured out to a consistant 1.583"+ OAL of the finished cartridge.

 

Now I am not sayin that this will replace the single stage or the Dillion 650......But it is kinda neat and got a bit of romance to it. In a pinch, like up at the farm, where I do not have any press, I could make some reloads, as long as I had either pre-measuerd packets of powder or a powder measure.

 

Thanks for the input, cowboys! :FlagAm:

 

Oklahoma Dee

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My first experiments with reloading in the early 60s was with a 45-70 tong tool and I quickly found that as long as I kept the way the cartridge was facing in the chamber (that is to have the "45-70" at the same clock face place each time I put in the round in the old rolling block) I could get far more reloads out of a case as the rather heavy neck sizing cause neck cracks after about 5 or 6 reloads. I don'd recall any other problems though I was using Hazzardvile black powder that must have been 70 years old at the time and casting the slugs from scrap lead pipe

 

Cheers

Windy

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I've loaded a lot of bullets with a Lee hand loader. They are slow and I did stop using the hammer for primers after I set one off. Primers are really loud in a small room. I cleaned out my pants and bought the Lee hand primer for that stage. I don't use them any more, but still keep a couple around for kicks.

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Interesting. I was kinda perplexed about Driftwoods comment about the hammering on the primers and now Bartin Bill says it also. I guess my handtool is different. It has a round slot that you put your brass to be primed, into. On the opposite side is a primer stud, just like the one on the Dillion press. You simply place the primer on the brass primer hole, carefully close the tool to where the primer stud press's the primer and Squeeze it! Volia!!! I will see if I can take some pictures tonite and down load em. Maybe some of the presses do not have that. Don't know for sure.

 

Oklahoma Dee

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If you are talking about an original Winchester hand tool with spoon-like handles, yes, I've used them as sort of an experiment. One was in .45-70 and the other in .44-40. The main "problems" are that you can only neck size the fired rounds, and the overall length (bullet seating depth) isn't adjustable. In the .44-40 especially, the seating portion was set to a bullet like the Lyman #427098, which is seated pretty deep in the case. Also, the bullet diameter was pretty much for a .427" bullet.

 

I've used a Lyman 310 tool a few times, just because it was "cool" and I could reload in the field (for whatever that was worth). Worked pretty well for .45-70. Don't recall trying it with .44-40. I think I tried it in .30-06, but you had to use a separate full length die and a hammer and rod (to remove the sized case from the die).

 

Definitely nice if you want to take your buffalo gun to the field and reload while folks around you watch. For most purposes I'll stick with my super-sophisticated RCBS Model B Jr. single stage bench press, age about 50 years!

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Works like a charm. Really, the only thing I had to do with the single stage press, was to widen the mouth of the brass. Everything else, the hand tool did it. Measured out to a consistant 1.583"+ OAL of the finished cartridge.

 

If it is the same tool that I linked to above, the nipple on the cylinder is used to widen the mouth of the brass.

 

Let me know if you want the instructions. I have been able to find legible copies online and rewrite them.

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If it is the same tool that I linked to above, the nipple on the cylinder is used to widen the mouth of the brass.

 

Let me know if you want the instructions. I have been able to find legible copies online and rewrite them.

 

Hey there Injun Ryder, This is for the Winchester 38-40 and it does have the decapping pin.

 

I am not sure about the nipple you are referring to. I pushed and prodded and tryed to fit it on everything on this tool, to get the mouth of the brass to be a bit wider. Maybe something is missing or maybe the overall diameter of the bullet (way back then ) was under .401" Not sure.

I would appreicate any directions you may have on this type of Reloading tool.

Thank you kindly,

Oklahoma Dee

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Interesting. I was kinda perplexed about Driftwoods comment about the hammering on the primers and now Bartin Bill says it also. I guess my handtool is different.

 

Oklahoma Dee:

 

Listen to Trail Rider, he had it right. The Winchester "nut-cracker" reloading tools work on similar principles as the modern Lyman 310 tools, but are constructed differently. The old Ideal tools were similar to the Winchester, but often had a bullet mold on the pivot end of the tool.

 

I have reloaded a few rounds with these just for fun, although with a .44WCF tool. Expanding the case mouth is accomplished with the decapping tool, at the same time that you are decapping the case. You mentioned that you are missing the decapping tool, and they are hard to find. I recall that there was a fellow on eBay a few years ago who machined replica decapping tools. You may be able to find him with a search, if he is still selling them. Also, the originals came with a brass powder measure.

 

You might want to look around here for further information: Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Association

 

Hope that helps.

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If you are talking about an original Winchester hand tool with spoon-like handles, yes, I've used them as sort of an experiment. One was in .45-70 and the other in .44-40. The main "problems" are that you can only neck size the fired rounds, and the overall length (bullet seating depth) isn't adjustable. In the .44-40 especially, the seating portion was set to a bullet like the Lyman #427098, which is seated pretty deep in the case. Also, the bullet diameter was pretty much for a .427" bullet.

 

I've used a Lyman 310 tool a few times, just because it was "cool" and I could reload in the field (for whatever that was worth). Worked pretty well for .45-70. Don't recall trying it with .44-40. I think I tried it in .30-06, but you had to use a separate full length die and a hammer and rod (to remove the sized case from the die).

 

Definitely nice if you want to take your buffalo gun to the field and reload while folks around you watch. For most purposes I'll stick with my super-sophisticated RCBS Model B Jr. single stage bench press, age about 50 years!

 

Hey Trailrider, Yup. Although, mine is not spoon like handles. I have done some with the Winchester 45-75, and it worked just fine. I most likely will continue to use the single stage RCBS press. But, It was kinda cool and good to know there are some slow and kinda tricky ways to reload in a pinch.

 

Oklahoma Dee

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Oklahoma Dee:

 

I have reloaded a few rounds with these just for fun, although with a .44WCF tool. Expanding the case mouth is accomplished with the decapping tool, at the same time that you are decapping the case.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Hey ho Hill Beachy! I do have the decapping pin, It even is stampled - 38 w - but it is too slender to open the mouth out larger than .401. In fact at the widest point it only measures .386", so it has been worn down, or is incorrectly labeled. Anyway, Its something else to put on the list of items to watch for!

 

Many Thanks

 

Oklahoma Dee

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Well, its not rocket science to use one, :lol: but... sometimes it is best to see or hear what others have done.

I am lookin at using one to load up a limited number of 38-40 rounds.

 

I appreciate any insightful logical information!

 

Oklahoma Dee

 

Oklahoma,

 

I live in Hawaii and spend a couple months each summer on the mainland on what I call my annual SASS Safari traveling around in a small camper going from cowboy match to cowboy match. I can't get enough loaded ammo to the mainland for all my shooting, so this is what I do.

 

I run a few thousand cases thru my Dillon 650 decapping, sizing and flaring the cases, then send the cases to my brothers address on the mainland via a flat rate 2 stamp box. While on the mainland I use the Lee Hand Press (Lee Breech Lock Hand Press)listed in another post along with an RCBS Little Dandy Powder Measure.

 

I've loaded over 10,000 pistol caliber rounds this way during the past several years in 5 calibers with no problems.

 

I also do a little Prairie Dog shooting and have loaded from scratch close to a thousand 22-250, 219 Zipper, and 243 rounds with my Lee hand press. The cases need to be lubed well (not excessive lube, but good coverage of the entire case and inside neck mouth).

 

I was getting a bit concerned about how many rounds I had loaded this way so, last summer, I bought a second Lee hand press for backup but found that they both perform well.

 

Haole

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That is awesome, Haole! Where theres a will, theres a way! :D

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For those interested see the pictures below! This is just for the primer portion of the reloading.

 

Just PM'd you but I can see by the pics that this is a different type than mine.

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I have Winchester handloading tools to match my antique '73 and '92 in .32wcf and .38wcf. I thought that it was pretty cool to have the accessories that a cowboy in the 19-th century might have bought with his new rifle.

Usually the tools found today are missing the 'peanut' insert that expands the case mouth. I hope on making them to fit my handloaders in the near future.

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One other thing about some of these old reloading tools...the decapping pin on some is for decapping Berdan primers, not Boxers. The tool is a little chisel-shaped thing that is supposed to dig out the fired Berdan primer from the outside of the case, as Berdan-capped cartidges don't have a central flash hole!

 

Have fun! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America!

 

Your Pard,

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