Noah Cash Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Howdy pards, Our local chain sportin goods store has a SXS 12 ga on sale, Manfg or imported by CIA (Century International Arms I believe) . External hammers, 2&3/4 or 3 in chamber. Anyone have one of these or know enough about them to give me an opinion? I would like to get into CC shootin for a change and the hammered gun is yellin out to me. any opinions good or bad would be appreciated. Thanks This link is a mile long but it should get you to the ad. http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big...gid=-2084886476 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 CIA is famous for importing fairly junky firearms. Especially bad 97 clones. The Cimmaron TTN is the best hammer double under $500 that is available new. Nothing better until you get to the Pioneer at over $1300. Parts will be hard to obtain. Gunsmiths who work on them regularly will be hard to find. I'd pass until you can afford a TTN. IMHO, as someone who shoots a TTN more than anything else. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The CIA is the same gun as the old Norinco/IAC 99 or 2000. Listen to GJoe, he has it right. Just say no to this boat anchor and save up for the TTN aka Cimarron. No comparison. No contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Had one a few years ago. Sold it at a gun show last Spring. It's quite heavy - the barrels seem to be about 1/8" thick at the muzzles. The ears on the hammers are really tiny too, so it's not designed for speed cocking. Parts support is nonexistent. Called them about something, and even though the gun I had was only two years old they said they "no longer supported that model". They're easy to turn a profit on though - made $60 selling mine. If you want a good hammer gun, scour the shows for a Rossi Stagecoach or Overland model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Ears Wilson, SASS #77948 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 My Remington Spartan has been a good gun. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem....?Item=211010855 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm lookin' at gettin' in to CC myself. I shoot with a pard that has the gun of which you speak. On the the plus side, it's cheap, it goes boom. On the minus side, hammers are too small and too far apart, and they are rough. The TTN and Baikal are about the best choices for a lower priced shotgun of decent quality. CZ makes a nice hammered coachgun but it runs around $750. I just got the Remington/Baikal hammered gun. It doesn't have "real" hammers, when you cock the hammers it's cocking the firing pins inside the gun. But it's well made and works good. Nice big hammers, too. Baikal is supposed to have a gun coming out with real hammers. The Baikal I bought was $300, I didn't want to spend a lot on a hammered gun and then decide I don't like CC. I wouldn't waste money on the CAI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm lookin' at gettin' in to CC myself. I shoot with a pard that has the gun of which you speak. On the the plus side, it's cheap, it goes boom. On the minus side, hammers are too small and too far apart, and they are rough. The TTN and Baikal are about the best choices for a lower priced shotgun of decent quality. CZ makes a nice hammered coachgun but it runs around $750. I just got the Remington/Baikal hammered gun. It doesn't have "real" hammers, when you cock the hammers it's cocking the firing pins inside the gun. But it's well made and works good. Nice big hammers, too. Baikal is supposed to have a gun coming out with real hammers. The Baikal I bought was $300, I didn't want to spend a lot on a hammered gun and then decide I don't like CC. I wouldn't waste money on the CAI. Howdy Doc, Just an "FYI" re: the hammers on that SxS you mentioned for use in CC category: Shotguns: SASS–legal external–hammer double barrel or lever actions. External–hammer double barrel shotguns must have manually functioning hammers. Faux hammers and hammers that are cocked internally are illegal. ROII p.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thanks, PWB, good to know. Now I have a real excuse to get a TTN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall John Joseph Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 "Shotguns: SASS–legal external–hammer double barrel or lever actions. External–hammer double barrel shotguns must have manually functioning hammers. Faux hammers and hammers that are cocked internally are illegal. " Literally interpreted, the Baikal model you speak of has manually functioning hammers. In order to fire the shotgun, the hammers must be manually cocked, setting the firing pins. Doesn't the passage quoted really refer to "hammers cocked" automatically upon breaking open the action? Whatcha thinkin? MJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Cash Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thanks Gents, appreciate the feedback. Even my better half now agrees I need the better gun. Y'all got her on the good side of the of the gooder gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 "Shotguns: SASS–legal external–hammer double barrel or lever actions. External–hammer double barrel shotguns must have manually functioning hammers. Faux hammers and hammers that are cocked internally are illegal. " Literally interpreted, the Baikal model you speak of has manually functioning hammers. In order to fire the shotgun, the hammers must be manually cocked, setting the firing pins. Doesn't the passage quoted really refer to "hammers cocked" automatically upon breaking open the action? Whatcha thinkin? MJJ MJJ the faux hammers on this model are cocking levers, the hammers are still internal. Bob if you keep an eye open you can find nice used TTN's for $375 and up. Don't pass on a Liberty II in the $350-$400 range, they are nice guns (same gun as the CZ at $800) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall John Joseph Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 MJJ the faux hammers on this model are cocking levers, the hammers are still internal. Bob if you keep an eye open you can find nice used TTN's for $375 and up. Don't pass on a Liberty II in the $350-$400 range, they are nice guns (same gun as the CZ at $800) I hate to challenge anybody, so I did some searching. Called SASS and was referred to Hipshot. After explaining the thread, his response was that the Baikal with WORKING hammers that cock the firing pins ARE legal for Classic Cowboy. He indicated that there was A shotgun with faux hammers that DID NOTHING. The process of opening the breech to load shells automatically set the firing pins . The hammers had NO FUNCTION at all, except looks. According to him, that is the intent of the rule as described in the ROII manual. Hipshot told me that "if it requires the hammers to be used to set the firing pins for the gun to function, then it IS Classic Cowboy legal." This gives no advantage over a TTN or other hammered shotguns. I am not trying to start a war or anything, but this has always been my impression as described in the Shooters Handbook. If we are wrong, then where do we go next for clarification? Respectfully, MJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Oh, come on, Marshal! Start a range war over it! The wire's been boring of late! More seriously, all of the guys who have been using the Baikals for 10 years or so—BEFORE CC was invented in regular categories and in CC since then—can breathe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Marshal, my statement was only from a technical standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 And here it is ... http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=489546 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall John Joseph Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 And here it is ... http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=489546 Been keeping my eye on this one. This one reportedly HAS active working hammers - not hammers that cock firing pins. They were available in the past, but I have never seen one. I have been told that this "... version has no internal hammers. Inside it has a tumbler type sear with a shaft going out to actual hammers. But in order to get the firing pins to the outside they were shaped sort of like a crank shaft. One end on the outside to line up with the hammer then this firing pin offsets back to the center-line of the bore to hit the primer." From an email - Nate Kiowa Jones What I have read, these are the Baikal Coach Guns you have described. Supposed to arrive by the end of January. Those who have the older version, chime in! MJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 CIA is famous for importing fairly junky firearms. Especially bad 97 clones. The Cimmaron TTN is the best hammer double under $500 that is available new. Nothing better until you get to the Pioneer at over $1300. Parts will be hard to obtain. Gunsmiths who work on them regularly will be hard to find. I'd pass until you can afford a TTN. IMHO, as someone who shoots a TTN more than anything else. Good luck, GJ As I am new to this sport, what does TTN stand for? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 What does TTN stand for? Who knows. Never heard anyone say. What scares me is is the gun out of production Or not? I cannot imagine being without one. Not that I will likely live long enuff to wear out the 2 I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 As I am new to this sport, what does TTN stand for? Thanks! Otis As Lone Dog stated I never knew,if it did. Some time back Cimarron became the importer http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Shotgun/Shotguns.htm the 1878 Cimarron shotgun,I Love mine. Adios Sgt. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall John Joseph Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 What does TTN stand for? Who knows. Never heard anyone say. What scares me is is the gun out of production Or not? I cannot imagine being without one. Not that I will likely live long enuff to wear out the 2 I have. Been told by the folks at Cimarron that a shipment is due in March. How many will arrive is not known. May make the Baikal more attractive and drive up the price of a used TTN. MJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My Remington Spartan has been a good gun. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem....?Item=211010855 That's a good buy!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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