44 Magnum, Special, Russian. amount

[Vail Vigilante]

Howdy!

Today I got a large amount of 44 Mag brass and it had two pieces of 44 Special mixed in. So I turned them into dummy rounds to experiment with. They cycle just fine in the Rossi 92. Some people have had issues with the shorter round in the Magnum action but apparently not this one. I know where I can get a little stash of 44 Special cases reasonable so I might have to pay for them. But there is also some 44 Russian cases that I know about. Soooo... has anyone ever tried the Russian in a Magnum?

[Bison Bud]

I've never shot the Rossi 92, but it is a fact that many rifles chambered for magnum cartridges (.44 Mag, .357 Mag, etc.) do not feed reliably with shorter cases.  If you already have a large stash of the .44 Mag. cases, then why introduce a possible feeding problem by buying shorter cases to load?  I also don't think loading the two dummy .44 Special rounds and cycling them is a valid test of the rifle's ability to cycle them reliably, even though they seem to work.  It's your choice, but I'd stick with loading and shooting the .44 Mag cases you already have and save my money for other components.  Good luck and good shooting to all.      

["Big Boston"]

The shorter brass is just part of the equation, the other part is the bullet length from the crimp groove, or where you crimp if there is no groove, to the nose of the bullet. The OAL of the cartridge is the dimension that you are working with. 

 

For example, in my sons  R92 if I seat a Lyman 429421 and crimp in the crimp groove in a 44 mag case, the gun will not feed and jams. However, in a 44 Special case it works fine. It has to do with the OAL. 

 

A '92 action will not tolerate a cartridge much over 1.6" in length. On the short side I've never measured the the point of failure. The shape on the nose of the bullet is a factor as well, the cartridge has to enter the chamber. 

 

What bullet are you using? what OAL is your ammunition. 

 

I tried some of my 45 S&W Schofield ammunition in my '73 Rifle. a RN bullet, a LEE 452-228-1R, seated to an OAL of 1.4" and it fed and cycled nicely. That OAL has to close to the too short dimension. I experimented with a Lyman 452490 seated to 1.47 - 1.48", which is more into the zone of reliability. 

 

The zone of OAL is a bit longer in a '92 as it has cartridge stops to hold the next round in the magazine. I've never tried shortening a cartridge to the point of failure but at some point there will be an issue. A long(ish) bullet in a 44 Russian case may work, but what are you trying to accomplish? I had some fairly mouse belch loads in 44 mag brass. If you go to slow, at some point the bullet may not even get out of the barrel. 

 

To test, you can always trim a couple of 44 mag cases 0.050" at a time until you achieve your goal, or you get tired of trimming, loading and shooting. 

 

BB

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Boiling Big Boston's answer down to the short version:  It's a Krap Shoot.  You may get away with short cases or you may not, depending on the rifle.  Finding out can be FUN.

[Go West]

It's not just the OAL, it is also the bullet profile (ogive). The optimum OAL will vary with blunt, rounded bullets vs. more narrow or truncated bullets. This isn't an issue with the elevator style carriers, but can be with those with a hinge-type carrier. The bullet rests on an angle and must straighten and chamber as you lever. Some of my guns are very forgiving and others, not so much. Some have been a royal pain trying to achieve an optimum bullet and length. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I have a nice pre-safety Rossi 92 in .44 Magnum, and a real Winchester that was rebarreled to that caliber. 

Both had issues running .44 Special correctly so I just run Magnums in them, but nowhere near loaded to normal .44 Magnum power levels.  In the end, I've decided that even if I could get Specials to run in the guns, I'd not bother as I don't want to deal with the carbon ring crud build up in the chamber.

["Big Boston"]

5 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Boiling Big Boston's answer down to the short version:  It's a Krap Shoot.  You may get away with short cases or you may not, depending on the rifle.  Finding out can be FUN.

 

Yep, that's what I meant. Thanks, just couldn't find the words. 

 

BB

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

With Rossi rifles or any elevator rifle, the overall length is important. IT is important that the round be long enough to hold the next round in the magazine tube and not let the case rim get on the elevator or as little as possible so the elevator ramp does not have to do all the work of pushing the second round forward off the elevator back in tot he magazine tube. It has been pointed out that bullet profile is also a factor as the round is on an angle as it comes up and will need t enter the breech and then straighten out to level to be pushed in to the chamber without binding. The shorter the round the more work the elevator has to do to push the second round forward in to the magazine tube and off the elevator. The shooter will feel this happening and it makes the shooter slow down to give the elevator time to move the second round forward.

 

[Jonathan Slim Chance]

I had a Rossi that fed and fired .44 Specials with no issues, never tried it with .44 Russians.

My Marlin will feed and fire any .44 Specials just fine, and will feed .44 Russians as long as it's a 240 grain SWC.  It will instantly chock on any RNFP.