Whats' the Call???

[Chief Rick]

Shooter engages first set of pistol targets properly with no misses, but then pulls and cocks second revolver.

 

Shooter then fires round into the berm and holsters second pistol.

 

Shooter engages shotgun and rifle properly and moves to final position for second pistol.

 

Shooter engages second set of pistol targets with four rounds, no misses, then reloads a round and engages 5th shot cleanly.

 

What's the call?

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

P

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

PROCEDURAL

 

Quote

- If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be assessed a single procedural penalty.  In this situation, if the shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty assessment (the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedural and a miss).  This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss

SHB p.16

[Dusty Sometimes]

Just to help me think this one through, I know a Shooter can only get one P, but technically is it a 2nd P when the Shooter loaded the 2nd Pistol with the 6th round at the second Pistol position and then engaged the targets, 5 on 3, with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th rounds?  Is that a 2nd (not assessed) P by loading extra rounds in your pistol and engaging the targets, but only the 1st P is assessed? 

Just curious and want to learn the entire call exactly and correctly as I was the stage writer and Asst Match Director. 

Dusty

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

The cited rule is a specific allowance/exception pertaining to a very specific set of circumstances.

The reason for the exception is contained within the text of the rule itself.

If the shooter had hit any available pistol target with that 6th shot, he would still have the "P" (for shooting from the wrong location),

but wouldn't have had to reload at the end.

Firing into the berm was unnecessary & actually ended up adding to the shooter's time for the reload.

 

 

 

[G W Wade]

Usually do not play with WTC  but.   When I realized I pulled and cocked second pistol I just shot the first sequence and hit everything in proper order.   I would receive only a "P" right        GW

[Chief Rick]

2 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

Usually do not play with WTC  but.   When I realized I pulled and cocked second pistol I just shot the first sequence and hit everything in proper order.   I would receive only a "P" right        GW

In a split pistol scenario, no - 5 misses. 

[Chief Rick]

Ok. So after reading PWBs additional comments above - I may be wrong on GW Wades question. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

36 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

Usually do not play with WTC  but.   When I realized I pulled and cocked second pistol I just shot the first sequence and hit everything in proper order.   I would receive only a "P" right        GW

 

The round under the cocked hammer MUST be fired ("P") in order to make the revolver "safe for movement" or to reholster before moving to the next firearm shooting position. (No allowance to de-cock in order to avoid the penalty)
Firing all 5 shots from the second revolver (intentionally) at the first location would border on a SOG violation if done "for a competitive advantage" (e.g. not having to move to the firing location for the last sequence).

 

However, all HITS on ANY pistol targets would count (only one "P" per stage) = No misses.

 

 

 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

How can the shooter receive a miss penalty if he hit what he was aiming at? Wouldn't that be a procedural penalty? Or is the miss possible because the wrong target was shot? E.g. shooter has a malfunction and gets lost in the middle of the kwazi Moto left handed cylindrical sweep and shoots the first target's fifth cousin twice removed five times instead of six and then shoots the wrong target after he gets going again...

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

4 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

How can the shooter receive a miss penalty if he hit what he was aiming at? Wouldn't that be a procedural penalty? Or is the miss possible because the wrong target was shot? E.g. shooter has a malfunction and gets lost in the middle of the kwazi Moto left handed cylindrical sweep and shoots the first target's fifth cousin twice removed five times instead of six and then shoots the wrong target after he gets going again...

 

In the OP, the shooter shot the first round of the second revolver into the berm...he "failed to hit" a revolver target.

That leaves him short a round for the second sequence, which, under the cited rule, may be made up with a reload.

 

...or are you referring to something else?

 

 

[G W Wade]

You mean I was right!!  Wow    Thanks   GW

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

3 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

You mean I was right!!  Wow    Thanks   GW

 

Please note my additional comments.

[Hillbilly Drifter]

45 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

You mean I was right!!  Wow    Thanks   GW

not exactly

[Carolina Gunslinger]

4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

In the OP, the shooter shot the first round of the second revolver into the berm...he "failed to hit" a revolver target.

 

...or are you referring to something else?

I'm settled on the correct call for the OP. There's a whole page somewhere about options to avoid the double jeopardy. I reread and fully understand this, therefore I have no further questions. 

[Chief Rick]

Just wanted to let everyone know the correct call was made at the match.

 

I posted this for the learning experience, and I learned something from the discussion.

 

While I wouldn't engage all of the pistol targets from the incorrect position, I would not have thought to engage the one and then only engage four from the final position.