Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 The shooter shot his rifle, laid it down in the window, the lever hit the side of the window and it closed, he had his shotgun in his hand and loaded, before a spotter told him the rifle was open but when he saw his shotgun loaded the spotter said go ahead and shoot. I was the TO and I did not see the lever open at first. After further review we decided he could get a re-shoot but the question is….. could he have opened the lever of his rifle with his shotgun already loaded? The shotgun was shot from the same window and all he would have had to do was reach down and flick the lever open. I say yes according to what I read. Whadya'll think? Rye
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 The shooter shot his rifle, laid it down in the window, the lever hit the side of the window and it closed, he had his shotgun in his hand and loaded, before a spotter told him the rifle was open but when he saw his shotgun loaded the spotter said go ahead and shoot. I was the TO and I did not see the lever open at first. After further review we decided he could get a re-shoot but the question is….. could he have opened the lever of his rifle with his shotgun already loaded? The shotgun was shot from the same window and all he would have had to do was reach down and flick the lever open. YES. I say yes according to what I read. Whadya'll think? Rye
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 25, 2014 Author Posted October 25, 2014 Thanks PWB, just what I thought!!
Yusta B. Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Absolutely. As long as he did it safely & did not fire the shotgun.
Wyatt Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 The shooter shot his rifle, laid it down in the window, the lever hit the side of the window and it closed, he had his shotgun in his hand and loaded, before a spotter told him the rifle was open but when he saw his shotgun loaded the spotter said go ahead and shoot. I was the TO and I did not see the lever open at first. After further review we decided he could get a re-shoot but the question is….. could he have opened the lever of his rifle with his shotgun already loaded? The shotgun was shot from the same window and all he would have had to do was reach down and flick the lever open. I say yes according to what I read. Whadya'll think? Rye ?
Blastmaster Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Was the lever open/closed/open or what? Sounds like it was closed by your question. PWB already answered your main question. sounds like the spotter should've been running the timer. So, does he earn a re-shoot? Since the TO did not say a word but coaching was being provided by spotter. Hmmm, spotter said 'go ahead' which indicates the shooter was properly informed that his rifle action was closed before the SG was fired. Perhaps spotter needs a refresher. My question, just how much legitimate coaching is allowed by the spotters w/o TO input? Improper coaching by spotter triggers a re-shoot, just like improper coaching by TO? I tend to think the only legitimate coaching should be from TO.. But I could be wrong.
Yusta B. Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Was the lever open/closed/open or what? Sounds like it was closed by your question. PWB already answered your main question. sounds like the spotter should've been running the timer. So, does he earn a re-shoot? Since the TO did not say a word but coaching was being provided by spotter. Hmmm, spotter said 'go ahead' which indicates the shooter was properly informed that his rifle action was closed before the SG was fired. Perhaps spotter needs a refresher. My question, just how much legitimate coaching is allowed by the spotters w/o TO input? Improper coaching by spotter triggers a re-shoot, just like improper coaching by TO? I tend to think the only legitimate coaching should be from TO.. But I could be wrong. Problem is: how do you know WHO is doing the coaching ? I have this problem a lot........
Blastmaster Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Problem is: how do you know WHO is doing the coaching ? I have this problem a lot........ As a shooter, it can be difficult. But I tend to listen to the voice off my shoulder. 99/100 (figure of speach) times I get no coaching other than 'one more' (SG still standing). However, I probably take into account the spotters/peanut gallery,,, as in 'one more'. My question is still,,,, if bad coaching comes from the spotters (let alone the peanut gallery), does that warrent a reshoot?
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 My question is still,,,, if bad coaching comes from the spotters (let alone the peanut gallery), does that warrent a reshoot? TO...yes Peanut gallery...no. Spotter should never give this kind of coaching. That's the TO's job. As a spotter, just shut up and let the shooter figure it out or let him/her ask the TO what to do. It's not an immediate safety issue. Fillmore
Cypress Sun Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 As a shooter, it can be difficult. But I tend to listen to the voice off my shoulder. 99/100 (figure of speach) times I get no coaching other than 'one more' (SG still standing). However, I probably take into account the spotters/peanut gallery,,, as in 'one more'. My question is still,,,, if bad coaching comes from the spotters (let alone the peanut gallery), does that warrent a reshoot? How many times does this same old, tired song have to play on the oldies channel?
Blastmaster Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 How many times does this same old, tired song have to play on the oldies channel? Fossils forget quickly. As many fossils that are out there, often. So a bad call was made.
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Fossils forget quickly. As many fossils that are out there, often. So a bad call was made. ...and, we are adding new shooters who haven't been bored to death by the "same old song". I say, keep asking the questions. Fillmore
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 Was the lever open/closed/open or what? Sounds like it was closed by your question. PWB already answered your main question. sounds like the spotter should've been running the timer. So, does he earn a re-shoot? Since the TO did not say a word but coaching was being provided by spotter. Hmmm, spotter said 'go ahead' which indicates the shooter was properly informed that his rifle action was closed before the SG was fired. Perhaps spotter needs a refresher. My question, just how much legitimate coaching is allowed by the spotters w/o TO input? Improper coaching by spotter triggers a re-shoot, just like improper coaching by TO? I tend to think the only legitimate coaching should be from TO.. But I could be wrong. We asked him if he wanted a re-shoot and he said no. We erased the 10 second penalty. Yes the lever was closed that's what I said in the original post.
Snakebite Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 My question is still,,,, if bad coaching comes from the spotters (let alone the peanut gallery), does that warrent a reshoot? TO...yes Peanut gallery...no. Spotter should never give this kind of coaching. That's the TO's job. As a spotter, just shut up and let the shooter figure it out or let him/her ask the TO what to do. It's not an immediate safety issue. Fillmore +1
Blastmaster Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 We asked him if he wanted a re-shoot and he said no. We erased the 10 second penalty. Yes the lever was closed that's what I said in the original post. Why did you erase the 10 second penalty when the lever was closed?
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Maybe tighter ear plugs are needed at times...
Curly Red Ryder Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Bad coaching or not coatching at all cannot be granted for a reshoot.
Wyatt Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Bad coaching or not coatching at all cannot be granted for a reshoot. I hope it's right in French
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 Why did you erase the 10 second penalty when the lever was closed? Because "bad coaching" caused his safety violation and he did not want a reshoot because he didn't have enough ammo. This was a local shoot with 30 shooters, it was an easy decision to erase the penalty.
Blastmaster Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Because "bad coaching" caused his safety violation and he did not want a reshoot because he didn't have enough ammo. This was a local shoot with 30 shooters, it was an easy decision to erase the penalty. I asked the question in post #6 about bad coaching from a spotter warrents a reshoot. It was answered in Post #9 & 14 that bad coaching from a spotter (anyone other the TO) did not trigger a reshoot call. My understanding is that the TO did not provide any coaching. Thus the shooter should have received the time plus the penalty for the closed lever.
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 So, does he earn a re-shoot? Since the TO did not say a word but coaching was being provided by spotter. Hmmm, spotter said 'go ahead' which indicates the shooter was properly informed that his rifle action was closed before the SG was fired. Perhaps spotter needs a refresher. (Quote) Answer: According to the rules, NO he does NOT earn a reshoot. seems like the TO (me) the spotter, the shooter and the whole rest of the pose needs a refresher.
Diamond S Doug Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 The TO is the Chief Range Officer, he is the one that should be doing the coaching. Spotters are Range Officers on the firing line and bad coaching from them is still RO interference.
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Posted October 28, 2014 The TO is the Chief Range Officer, he is the one that should be doing the coaching. Spotters are Range Officers on the firing line and bad coaching from them is still RO interference. How come you insure the TO will be the only one coaching? Are you suggesting the spotters have duct tape on their mouths? How can you shut someone up when their spotting? People don't always listen to what their told. Don't forget this is only a game!! There was no safety violations. Rye
Diamond S Doug Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 How come you insure the TO will be the only one coaching? Are you suggesting the spotters have duct tape on their mouths? How can you shut someone up when their spotting? People don't always listen to what their told. Don't forget this is only a game!! There was no safety violations. Rye You're right, I had a brain fart, I was thinking of coaching to be directing through the stage, however yes safety coaching is a job of the spotter. People don't listen and that's ok, it's their stage. Yes, a game and a darn fun one too. Unless there was a prop failure a closed lever is a MSV.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.