Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I was conversing today with a feller who told me that in the Mass. general election, there is a proposition that, if passed, will FORBID you from working on your own car. Is this correct? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The "Right to Repair" bill, perhaps...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 As I understand it, this is a face-off between independent repair shops (who want access to tech specs and repair data from manufacturers) and dealerships, who have a quasi-monopoly on such information for late model cars. I haven't heard anything about trying to forbid individual repairs, although I can see the independents spreading such a story in an effort to dramatize their issue. In these times, where more folks are keeping their cars longer and dealer's profit margins are slim on new car sales, the garage operations have become the profit center. I can understand manufacturers and their dealers trying to hold on to proprietary data; but once a car is out of manufacturer's warranty, I can't see why the marketplace should not include private repair shops. Leave it to the customer to compare value. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This is Massachusetts.................It wouldn't surprise me one iota! But the law is about independent repair shops having access to the technical info the dealers have.............Amazing that THIS would be something folks would be voting on in a general election. God save us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I suppose that without detailed specs, someonecould claimthat the independents can't fix the car correctly and might be responsible for accidents after their repairs and that would make it hard for them to get insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This is Massachusetts.................It wouldn't surprise me one iota! But the law is about independent repair shops having access to the technical info the dealers have.............Amazing that THIS would be something folks would be voting on in a general election. God save us! For the Right to Repair Coalition's view, see: http://www.righttorepair.org/about/default.aspx Please note that this legislation has also been introducted in the U.S. Congress - not just in MA It includes provisions empowering the Federal Trade Commission to issue regulations to implement and enforce the proposed law. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I figure that once one state says the manuals must be sold to the independents there will be a huge business of bootlegging manuals to other states. Say, Loophole, do you want help someone to start a "repair business"so he can sell manuals on "the blackmarket"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This looks like a good thing. Something like the right to know how to repair a vehicle. Interestingly enough this may have some application to firearms as some manufacturers are not providing parts diagrams in their manuals anymore. Nor are they selling parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This looks like a good thing. Something like the right to know how to repair a vehicle. Interestingly enough this may have some application to firearms as some manufacturers are not providing parts diagrams in their manuals anymore. Nor are they selling parts. Don't tell the M4$$4oles (presentcompany exceptedof course) that until after they vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Don't tell the M4$$4oles (presentcompany exceptedof course) that until after they vote. Excellent point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would suspect that a case could be that if it passed WRT cars it would apply to other products as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I would suspect that a case could be that if it passed WRT cars it would apply to other products as well. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a law in MA that would require gun makers to make more gun parts available..... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sandor, SASS #74075 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I figure that once one state says the manuals must be sold to the independents there will be a huge business of bootlegging manuals to other states. Say, Loophole, do you want help someone to start a "repair business"so he can sell manuals on "the blackmarket"? From my experience, it's not the actual manuals that are the problem. All US carmakers factory manuals are available from Helm, Inc.for around $150-200 for a printed book, or on DVD. I as a consumer - not a repair shop - have full sets for my truck and my wife's SUV. The problems lie in the fact that 1. Manuals do not include the technical data often needed to initialize new parts to make them recognizable to the vehicle's computer systems; 2. Dealers have "Hotline" access to updates and answers to "head scratcher" questions which are either actively denied to independents or can take literally weeks to get - while a customer's car sits on the lot. I really appreciate having the manuals. With them and a code reader, I can diagnose and repair just about anything...but if the repair interacts with computer systems ( and MANY things do) I have a "repaired" vehicle that won't work!! Right now, in many cases only a dealer - at dealer prices - can get it running properly. The days of replacing a major system and adjusting it with a screw driver or wrench are generally gone. I stopped working on cars other than my own 20 years ago...glad I did. The above linked website has all the information needed to understand the argument, at least from the independents' point of view, if you want to really get into it. Count Sandor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 LL, I have no reason to hold my breath about anything good WRT firearms in "taxachusettes" as it is sometimes known. (I was born there. And escaped.) Count, I think that first point that the manual is not complete is the most important. Lack of complete information in a system that has become as complex as a car can stop cold efforts to repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sandor, SASS #74075 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 LL, I have no reason to hold my breath about anything good WRT firearms in "taxachusettes" as it is sometimes known. (I was born there. And escaped.) Count, I think that first point that the manual is not complete is the most important. Lack of complete information in a system that has become as complex as a car can stop cold efforts to repair. Exactly! The factory manuals are beautiful - explanations of all codes; extended "yes-no" diagnostic charts; systems and parts diagrams, including fasteners; and step by step R&R procedures...everything but the last little data input bit many of the systems need to properly function. Does it sound like I long for the days before computerization of vehicles when a manual written like that could have made me some good money?? CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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