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Is this shotgun lega?


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Okay, to quote the shooters handbook...

 

Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict.

 

 

SHOTGUN REQUIREMENTS

Any side-by-side or single shot shotgun typical of the period from approximately 1860

until 1899 with or without external hammers, having single or double triggers is allowed.

Automatic ejectors are allowed on single shot break action, lever and pump action shotguns

ONLY.

 

 

Here is a picutre I found of the shotgun I am wondering about...

 

http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff66/BSAPIMAGES/?action=view&current=GreenerPolicegun.jpg&newest=1#!oZZ30QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs243.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff66%2FBSAPIMAGES%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DGreenerPolicegun.jpg%26newest%3D1

 

Okay, this is a shotgun version of the old British Martini single shot rifle from the late 1800. Is is a single shot, lever action, no exposed hammer, automatic ejecting shotgun.

 

As I read the above definitions of allowed shotguns, it seems to me that this would be legal.

 

BUT, I recognize that this is a very unusal animal, so I thought I'd ask if others agree with my reading of the rules.

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Sort of gray area here H.K. Technically it seems to meet all the Handbook requirements, however ...

 

While it may be based on the 1800's Martini-Henry action, but from what I've been able to find on them they didn't go into production until 1922.

Ammunition might be problematic too. It used a proprietary bottleneck 12 gauge shell. The base is 12, but the mouth is 14 gauge.

Later versions had a "safety" built in where the shell base had a groove that mated with pins on the breech face. If the pins were pushed in, like in contact with a regular flat base shell, it would lock the firing pin.

 

All is not lost if you do pick one up. This company here does conversions to ream them out to standard 12 gauge and fix that bizarre safety too.

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Sort of gray area here H.K. Technically it seems to meet all the Handbook requirements, however ...

 

While it may be based on the 1800's Martini-Henry action, but from what I've been able to find on them they didn't go into production until 1922.

Ammunition might be problematic too. It used a proprietary bottleneck 12 gauge shell. The base is 12, but the mouth is 14 gauge.

Later versions had a "safety" built in where the shell base had a groove that mated with pins on the breech face. If the pins were pushed in, like in contact with a regular flat base shell, it would lock the firing pin.

 

All is not lost if you do pick one up. This company here does conversions to ream them out to standard 12 gauge and fix that bizarre safety too.

 

Hi, Captain.

 

Yeah, the "gray area" is what had me wondering. Yes, it is a later production of an earlier design. One could use the argument of the Ruger or the Henry Big Boy, both of which are modern guns made in the spirit of the old timey ones, but I also know that there seems to be less of an allowance for things in the shotgun arena. This is why I asked. I suppose that one could also make the argument that just as Winchester 92's were never chambered in, say, .45 Colt in the time period, modern reproductions are, and are perfectly acceptable. Therefore, this old design is fine, now that it's chambered in a usable chambering. It's gray. While I do think it'd be okay, I plan to bring along my 97 to any shoot where I tried to use it, just in case there was an objection. (Or a stage with a popper target)

 

With regard to the gauge, mine is a later one that uses standard 12 gauge shells. In fact the markings say 2-7/8" so I don't have a problem there.

And as far as the safety goes, well, I shoot left handed, so it's REAL easy to thumb the thing off as I grip the gun.

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Since it's a single shot,????????

I might let it in.

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Typical of the period ... hmmm.

 

Not to muddy the waters too much or foment a rulings dispute, but some of the 577/450 Martini-Henry (1871 - 1891) rifles were produced as smoothbores and used a 577 shot cartridge.

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If I were still a match director, I'd allow it. I can't see any real competitive advantage and I like to watch people shoot neat guns. Back before the "great pump shotgun ban" I had a buddy who regularly shot Frontier Cartridge with a Spencer pump, which he'd occasionally accompany by shooting an original Civil War era Spencer rifle. It was fun to watch him shoot. Watching someone with one of these Martinis would be neat, too.

 

I suppose I'd understand if someone at a state or national level competition objected, but again, it's not like it's a Remington 1100.

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I've had several over the years.

 

My 12ga-2&3/4" Martini

 

As mentioned the standard configuation was a bottle necked 14ga. the rear being the same as standarded 12ga. But the chamber can be reamed to 12ga- 2 3/4. As stated some were smooth bores before 1899. The first British service Lee was the Lee-Metford adopted in December 1888. From that point they were rebarreling the Martini's to be sent to the colonies as smooth bore riot guns. But, it wasn't until about sometime in the early 1900's that they were fitted with nitro proofed barrels.

Besides the 14ga bottleneck chambers they also had a three pronged firing pin. The two outer pins fit into a recessed ring or grove in the cartridge case head of the 14ga ammo. Thus preventing the gun from firing homemade ammo made from shortened standand 12ga hulls.

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...typical of the period from approximately 1860 until 1899...

?

 

Looks like NK resolved the only question I had re: the legality of this firearm for SASS competition.

;)

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Talk to dmyankee he has one and has used it in matches

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The Martini Greener shotguns being sold in the US are ones that the British issued to the Egyptian Police in the mid 1890s. A number of years ago a large number of them were imported to the US and several companies reamed the chambers to be able to use 12 Ga shells. They shoot great and are a real blast to use. However they are a lot slower than other singles and definitely not a competitive advantage except in style points. I love mine.

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The Martini Greener shotguns being sold in the US are ones that the British issued to the Egyptian Police in the mid 1890s. A number of years ago a large number of them were imported to the US and several companies reamed the chambers to be able to use 12 Ga shells. They shoot great and are a real blast to use. However they are a lot slower than other singles and definitely not a competitive advantage except in style points. I love mine.

 

Hey, Diamond.

 

Well, style points is why I bought this gun. I plan to make this the "standard" shotgun whenever I trot out my alternate "Sheriff Buntline" persona.

 

Obviosuly, for pistols I use a Colt Buntline and Sheriff's model. For the rifle, I've got a short barreled Win 92 with a John Wayne style loop lever.

 

I needed a something in the shotgun category to complete this rather ridiculous, but very fun, battery of armaments. I figured this would fit the bill.

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I can't remember who now that I bought my trio from, but Shotgun News had a seller that sold a three pack of Greeners for $180.00 a number of years ago. I made a deal with a buddy of mine that if he bought me the tooling I'd give him a finished shotgun. So from Brownells I purchased the necessary chamber reamer and bore reamer to turn the gun to 12 gauge 2 3/4" cyl bore. The firing pin was the simplest fix as I just removed the pin and ground off the external pins leaving the center pin. The 14 ga barrel has enough meat on it to allow reaming out to .729 (12 ga bore) with plenty of wall thickness left. They are rather slow in operation, but a whole lot of fun to shoot. Smithy.

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Right, wrong or otherwise, I've seen one used. It's been some time though. I agree with letting them be used as they are no threat to anything but the target. A++++ Style Points!! and Historically correct.

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