Loading with APP

[Dirty Chris]

I decided I should at least try shooting some smoky stuff to see if I like it and maybe for an occasional fun match. So I got me some APP FFg and FFFg, read through Capt. Baylor's article about loading subs, and I think I have a handle on it. Seems simple enough, but I though some more experienced pards might have some more advice for me.

 

I shoot 38s, and normally use 105gr in the pistols and 125gr in my rifle loads.... can I stick with those bullet weights? I think I read somewhere that heavier bullets will work better with BP and Subs. Is 2F or 3F better for loading 38s?

 

Any recommendations for 12 gauge loads? I don't want real a real heavy load but obviously it has to put the knockdowns down. Are the red Winchester wads Capt Baylor references the best for loading with BP?

 

Last question... I normally use CLP to clean/lube the innards of my guns. Will that cause any problems with APP or should I switch to something else? Will I need to spray em down with something during the match to keep everything running? (shooting rugers and a 73)

 

Thanks for any advice you can throw my way.

 

-dirty chris- (who was told with a name like dirty chris he should be shooting BP)

[el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162]

Hola, Chris ~

 

I shoot .38's with APP (or Goex Pinnacle) using 125 grain RNFP. They seem to run just fine. The guns clean up pretty quick with Windex with VINEGAR (not ammonia). For a while I used BP lubes, but I have gone back to Hoppe's #9 gun oil. It takes me less time to clean the APP than to clean guns after smokeless. However, I do have to clean after each time I shoot with APP, while with Trail Boss I might clean once every 3 months.

 

For .38's I use 3-F. For 12 ga., 2-F.

 

Shotgun: I use 1 oz. of 7.5 shot over a AA or STS white wad. PM sent on loads. I load shotgun on a MEC 600 Jr.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Buena suerte,

eGG

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Are the red Winchester wads Capt Baylor references the best for loading with BP?

-dirty chris- (who was told with a name like dirty chris he should be shooting BP)

I use these wads for all my BP loads (subs and the real stuff). Recoil with APP is so modest my wife will shoot them. My only objection is they use so much APP that you get an enormous cloud of smoke. While impressive the amount of smoke slows me down considerably. I use the red wads with real BP and prefer the results I get with it.

[Holden A. Grudge]

just to tag on to (and hopefully not hijack) this thread, Do the smokeless lube bullets work with APP (as I have heard they do with 777)?

[Peddler Parsons SASS # 31281]

Yes

I have been using them for 5 years now with no problem of leading up in my pistols or rifles

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

I shoot 130gr bullet in my 38 APP loads, both for rifle and pistol. Also use APP in my SG loads with 1 oz #8 shots, Win. AA hulls and red wad. Sorry we are not allowed to post powder weight here, will PM you with load. Clean up is easy with water, wipe dry and lube with CLP. In shooting with APP in my rifle, have no problem crud getting into the action. Only area that gets crud is the front of the carrier and around chamber area. It last me about 6 stages before cleaning, which is usually how many we shoot in a day, whether it's monthly or major match. I use 2f for all loads. 3f is just a tad hotter than 2f, probably due to 3f is more of a finer granule than 2f. APP creates a lot of smoke, of which I like (a bit challenging in seeing the targets), regardless of how much grain by weight you use, there will be a lot of smoke. However, APP is milder of all the substitute in regards to recoil. Just load them up and have at it, don't worry about the recoil, it's pretty mild but with a lot of smoke. Good luck and have fun.

[No Buk Chuck SASS # 24540]

I have used from 110s to 158's with APP. They all worked well. I like the 125 or 130 wieght the best. Ya never know when there gonna throw a knockdown at ya. I use App for the shotgun with 1oz. shot. I'll PM ya. The recoil is good and cleanup is a matter of a few minutes. I also use Windex it works and is easy to get. NBC

[Dirty Chris]

Thanks everyone for the replies and PMs. Now I just need to pick up a fresh batch of bullets and some wads and start loading. Hopefully I can try em out at a match next weekend.

[Fairshake]

When you finnish with the subs and want to really play on the Dark Side then the only way to shoot black powder is to shoot the real thing. You will have smoke with all the subs and that is it. No Fire!! No Sparks!! No Boom!! Although there is enough room for all shooters do yourself a favor and do it the real way.

[Dirty Chris]

When you finnish with the subs and want to really play on the Dark Side then the only way to shoot black powder is to shoot the real thing. You will have smoke with all the subs and that is it. No Fire!! No Sparks!! No Boom!! Although there is enough room for all shooters do yourself a favor and do it the real way.

 

Maybe someday... while I like the idea of shooting the real thing, I don't want to order a whole bunch of real BP (don't know where to get it locally), then have to get specially lubed bullets, all to find out I don't even like shooting it. This will likely be an "every once in a while just for something different" thing for me. APP to me seemed like the easiest way to give the smoky stuff a try.

[John Boy]

Chris, like they say ... half a step is better than no steps at all. Enjoy the APP and maybe 'shortly' you'll get the itch for original gunpowder.

[South Devon Cattleman, SASS #59003]

That is how I started. I shot one match with APP, because I could use smokeless lubed bullets. I still have part of that bottle of APP powder left and a bunch of bullets with smokeless lube. It was the Crow River Rangers Annual shoot, which is the second to last match of the year. I shot the last match of the year with smokeless and by the next year I was ready to go all Black Powder. That was several years ago and I still only shoot Black Powder.

 

For shotgun I use the white AA wads. I was loading clays powder when I shot smokeless. When I switched I just emptyed the clays out of the MEC and poured in the Black Powder. I use the same powder bushing for BP as I was using for Clays. I get plenty of smoke, fire and Boom and still can take down a knock down.

[Bridog]

Hello All,

 

New to FC so only have been shooting it a short time.

 

I have been loading APP in my 44/40 rifle with good results so far with shooting and reloading. I load the SG with the Red wads - it was the only one I could get a nice crimp with for my recipe I settled on. It seemed like all the others were just a hair to long.

 

The 38's pistols I have been loading 777 with 125 and 158's with good results. The 777 is less dusty in my experience through the loader.

 

A side note question for others (as said above not trying to hijack just add on)... In Capt Baylors (or one of the links on there)article he was saying that APP and stainless guns don't get along and caused him corrosion. Have any of you had this problem?

 

Thanks, Bridog - Fire N Lead

[Yusta B.]

A side note question for others (as said above not trying to hijack just add on)... In Capt Baylors (or one of the links on there)article he was saying that APP and stainless guns don't get along and caused him corrosion. Have any of you had this problem?

 

Thanks, Bridog - Fire N Lead

 

 

 

 

 

Have shot APP and recently Pinnacle thru Stainless Vaqueros since 2006 without any noticeable corrosion whatsoever. (And sometimes they don't get cleaned for several days)

[Cofachique Dick]

Hello All,

 

New to FC so only have been shooting it a short time.

 

I have been loading APP in my 44/40 rifle with good results so far with shooting and reloading. I load the SG with the Red wads - it was the only one I could get a nice crimp with for my recipe I settled on. It seemed like all the others were just a hair to long.

 

The 38's pistols I have been loading 777 with 125 and 158's with good results. The 777 is less dusty in my experience through the loader.

 

A side note question for others (as said above not trying to hijack just add on)... In Capt Baylors (or one of the links on there)article he was saying that APP and stainless guns don't get along and caused him corrosion. Have any of you had this problem?

 

Thanks, Bridog - Fire N Lead

 

 

I gave up on APP because of the dust. That dust rusts up your reloading equipment real bad. I now use 777 and like it a lot better.

If you use APP clean your powder measure and your dies out completely every time.

[Lethal Larry, SASS #58429]

I shoot APP quite often and have shoot 115 grain some and 130 and 158 grain a lot with no problems. Fill case. Seat bullet, shoot gun, watch smoke and hear the coughing and hacking start. What fun!

[Dirty Chris]

Well I shot a match today using my APP loads, and it was a heck of a lot of fun. Though it was a rainy day and we pretty much shot all "stand and deliver" stages from under cover, so seeing through all the smoke made things interesting. Strange thing is that I didn't have any shotgun makeups all day, which is surprising since I couldn't see the second target after the first shot. Also surprising is that my guns were cleaner after 6 stages than they usually are with smokeless. Ran a couple patches down the bores/cylinders, wiped off the outsides and cleaning was done.

 

Only negative was that I didn't bring anything to put my brass in after shooting.... it looked clean at the unloading table, but when I dumped it out at home it was all stained. Is there a good mix to put brass in other than water/vinegar solution? I hate the smell of vinegar and would rather not use it if I don't have to.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Without meaning to sound like a no-it-all, sometimes many of your questions will be answered if you go to the source.

 

American Pioneer Powder

 

If you go to their FAQs, there is an answer to your question about cleaning the brass.

 

Fired brass should be rinsed right after shooting to neutralize any reaction of the brass and powder residue. A commonly used method is to dump your fired brass into a solution of either 50/50 water/vinegar or a mild solution of Simple Green or similar soap. Never use a mixture that contains any ammonia, as ammonia will attack the brass and weaken it. You should then rinse with tap water, let dry and tumble clean.

[George Rodgers]

FF in APP will bridge in the powder drop system. It needs lots of vibration to prevent bridging. Be sure to take apart the powder measure and clean it to prevent corrosion from residual dust stuck to the wall.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

FF in APP will dridge in the powder drop system. It needs lots of vibration to prevent bridging. Be sure to take apart the powder measure and clean it to prevent corrosion from residual dust stuck to the wall.

 

 

Frankly, I have found the same thing to be true with real Black Powder. Not the bridging part, but unless completely cleaned out of the powder measure, any BP dust remaining will attract moisture and cause corrosion.

[Dirty Chris]

Howdy

 

Without meaning to sound like a no-it-all, sometimes many of your questions will be answered if you go to the source.

 

American Pioneer Powder

 

If you go to their FAQs, there is an answer to your question about cleaning the brass.

 

Thanks Driftwood, I had read through that before but forgot about the brass cleaning part. I also like to get opinions from people that use the stuff. Sometimes people come up with better/easier ways than what the manufacturer suggests.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy Again

 

I have no personal experience with any of the subs.

 

However with my BP ammo, I always dump my brass into a jug of water that has a few squirts of dish soap in it. I do not allow vinegar anywhere near any of my guns, or my brass. Vinegar is an acid and if left in contact with brass for too long it can leach some of the copper out of brass, causing it to become brittle.

 

In my experience, the brass does not have to be dumped into a rinse jug immediately, the end of the match is plenty of time. Like I say, I have no experience with any of the subs, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts you can do the same with APP.

 

A couple of days ago I found about 20 44 Russian empties that I had forgotten to dump in my rinse jug. They were fine on the outside, but had plenty of green crud (verdigris) inside. I rinsed them out good, and now there is just a light coating of green inside. I am going to dump them in my tumbler and let them tumble for a good long time. I'm betting they will be fine when they come out.

[Tom Bullweed]

I shoot APP

- FFFg in .38, 125-135 grain

- FFFg or FFg Cowboy .45 Special 160-200 grain

Both loaded for 1/16" compression, Winchester primers, firm crimps.

Soak roudns in Gatorade bottle of water and a couple suirts of dishwashing liquid from the range.

I also use APP FFg in 12-gage square load of 7/8 ounce soft lead. I cut the petals from normal shotwads which exposes the lead pellets to the bore and keeps it nice and clean.

I single-load and use Lee spoons. Slow but no dust or spark issues.