Guest Foothills Drifter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hi to all. I've been a long time Sass Member but this is my first time posting in the wire. I've shot Duelist and Gunfighter and switched about for a few years. However, I've always been a cartridge shooter using a pair of 44-40 Ruger Vaqueros. Well, I've been thinking about possibly giving black powder a try. a fellow member let me try their 1851's a while back and I liked it. So now for may main question. I noticed that they offer both the 1851 Navy and the 1858 New Army in the standard 7-1/2" barrels and they also offer them in a 5-1/2" barrel. From my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) originally, Colt and Remington only offerd them in the 7-1/2" barrel lengths so that would make the newer 5-1/2" versions not historically correct. Are the 5-1/2" versions still sass legal for the class? I'm about to start looking over the rules again to see if I missed anything. thanks in advance for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foothills Drifter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Legal thanks for the confirmation. I guess now the question is........... which ones and which lengths do I want........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 SASS doesn't require guns, equipment, or clothing to be historically correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Smaller size hands - 1851's Larger hands - 1858's Faster stage speeds - Ruger ROAs, fixed sight Shorter barrels - faster out of holster and on target Longer barrels - perhaps steadier for you Try the guns you think you want! Everyone "feels" them differently. See which point well and come right into a master grip for you quickly. If you choose either of the "original" designs, be ready with spare parts and capable of changing them out on short order. If you are not a tinkerer, perhaps better off with the ROAs. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I have both ,,,, and I find that the 51s point better and are easyer to cock one handed or for that matter with both hands .... The hammer shape and placement on the 58s along with the 350 HD. truck springs make it hard to use them for fast shooting .... I can shoot two stages,before my thumbs give out shooting duelist .... Hope this helps .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Smaller size hands - 1851's Larger hands - 1858's Faster stage speeds - Ruger ROAs, fixed sight Shorter barrels - faster out of holster and on target Longer barrels - perhaps steadier for you Try the guns you think you want! Everyone "feels" them differently. See which point well and come right into a master grip for you quickly. If you choose either of the "original" designs, be ready with spare parts and capable of changing them out on short order. If you are not a tinkerer, perhaps better off with the ROAs. Good luck, GJ +1 Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I shoot the '51's in 5 1/2" barrels and POA is POI for what we shoot, and I shoot Frontier Cartridge full up loads of Black Powder, Duelist. And yes, it is fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnews SASS# 24779 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 SASS doesn't require guns, equipment, or clothing to be historically correct. Ain't that the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I think most are giving good info but there is some personal bias slipping through around the edges anyway. The real deal answer, cause I dont mind my personal bias, is that though each gun does in fact have advantages/ disadvantages they can be altered. A good knowledgable bp gunsmith can do wonders for these guns so plan to have them tuned at some time in the near future. To my knowledge the makers will be Uberti or Pietta, with perhaps a couple or others whose reputation is poor or are out of production. Guns with the Colt Logo or Ruger brand are quite common on the used market BUT since my opinions on these are based more on bias than knowledge I will not go there and start any new fires! I have been a big fan of Uberti guns for many years, they offer the greatest selection of cowboy guns to be found on the market. I honestly feel that they have contributed more to our sport than any other manufacturer. Whoops, there goes my bias. Many will tell you that Pietta has now reached the level of c&b quality that was once reserved for Uberti alone but that is subjective. When I lay my older Piettas next to my newer ones, there is definitely an improvement in surface appearance but when the new versions are beside my Ubertis 'I think' the Ubertis still look slightly better finished. With that said, for years my favorite c&b pistols were the old Cabellas .44 Pietta '58 Rems. For me the only thing that keeps them from being perfect is the grip profile and one or two lesser issues that could be adressed with extra cash. My favorite grip style is the smaller Colt Navy or even a tad smaller yet. I will also admit to thinking that the long barl Navy actually seems to balance a bit better BUT I still prefer the shorter 5 1/2" for a holster gun. See, I gots lots of opinions to but I am left with one question also, why would a ROA automatically be claimed to have a faster stage time? Is there perhaps something about its modern engineering that was aimed at speeding up the lock time? Aside from that I can not immagine what would make it a faster Frontiersman Cat pistol on a given stage and even then do we have shooters now who are having to wait for the action while shooting duelist style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Creek Sam, SASS# 78004 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hold them in your hands before you decide, balance and feel is much different. I love the 51's and hate the 58's it's all in the feel of the gun in your hand. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 why would a ROA automatically be claimed to have a faster stage time? Is there perhaps something about its modern engineering that was aimed at speeding up the lock time? Aside from that I can not imagine what would make it a faster Frontiersman Cat pistol on a given stage and even then do we have shooters now who are having to wait for the action while shooting duelist style? Nothin' automatic about a claim that the ROAs are the fast gun for Frontiersman. See Capt. George Baylor's articles on Frontiersman shooting. Ask several competitors. It's not the lock time. It's the reliability and not having to fight cap fragments and other jams. IF you can get a replica gun to run 100% reliably, you have a great gun and a fighting chance at leading; if not, you are in a lower finishing position. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foothills Drifter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Thanks for all the great replys guys. To be honest, I do love to win and place good..... who dosent..... I've won a few and lost several but truth be told, I'm not a hard core gamer. I just simply love cowboy shooting mainly for the fun and partially for the competition. So basically what I'm saying is I'm not as worried about having the fastest black powder gun. In fact If I do purchase a couple of these pistols, I'm just doing it to try something different and to have fun with it. Just a way to change things up a bit vs. shooting Duelist with my vaquero's. I've always loved the looks of these 51's and 58's. I already know that I like the '51, as i mentioned in a earlier post I shot one and loved it, however I do need to hold a '58 and see how it feels.f thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Come On Christmas Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Once you try Black, you'll never go back. Shorter or longer? How it feels in your hand. Shorter will be just as accurate IMHO. Shameless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 So we now amend this to say the ROMA has faster stage times 'IF' the other styles happen to have problems on a given stage??? First I will conced that Ruger builds a great product, most of the time, and that The Old Army has every advantage built in, that modern materials and design would allow. One of the biggest problems with it for me was that, in retrospect, it was an early example of all that was the later Henry Big Boy, not modeled after anything, cowboy and somewhat like an ugly duckling to some, including me! Also remember what Muddy Creek Sam said, check the feel, the Ruger uses a bit larger grip set and might actually feel better to many with large hands. Over the years we have had many posts that argued the merits of the Old Army as compared to the various other cap and ball revolvers, resulting in some hot times in the old town that night. It is amazing that many shooters always stepped into those arguments and claimed excellet dependability from their clones and yet the rumor persists that they can not win agianst the Ruger??? Now for the bone, I do think that many of the most serious shooters opted for the ROMA and thus gave it the greatest advantage of all, dedicated competitors. In comparison I think that many entry level bp shooters jumped in with the cheepest guns available and showed up on match Saturday with their new gun and zero experience. After the crash and burn experience on one or two trys they blame the gun and go back to cartridge revolvers. Many non bp shooters see this and just assume the guy is correct when he tells them it is all the fault of the old design. If one wishes to take the time to weed out the dedicated from the lazy, you will find a few big winners who used the traditional guns to win out over the more modern rival. The biggest factor in the end was, as always, the man and not the gun. One last thought, I kinda skimmed past the Ruger in my first post due to the fact that it is no longer manufactured any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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