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Apothecary Pat

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    108786
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    Granite City Gunslingers

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    Minnesota

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  1. Sorry about the delay in getting an update posted. I adjusted the bolt timing of one of the revolvers as Mr Pettifogger suggested. After working with the snap caps as described above, I took both revolvers to the range and ran about 75 rds through each. The revolver with the adjusted bolt timing performed flawlessly while I had 4 FTF due to over rotation on the other revolver. With that done I'll perform the same adjustment on the malfunctioning revolver and I think that should do it. FWIW, I did indeed remove a VERY tiny amount of the bolt surface as suggested, expecting that I might have to come back and remove more. I felt like what I did was more polishing with a hard extra fine honing stone than anything else. That was all that was necessary with that revolver. Thanks a ton for all your comments and suggestions.
  2. Abilene I have tried that with snap caps that weigh about as much as the ammo I use. So far I haven't seen over or under rotation.
  3. OK. Looks like bolt was dropping early. I have some extra fine hard stones and diamond sharpening files from my days as a butcher. Polished sides of bolt and shaved a tiny bit off the 'D' surface with the finest diamond file I have. When it warms up here in Minnesota I will take the revolver to the range and see how it goes.
  4. OK, I have one of the revolvers disassembled. The set screw for the hand spring had nearly completely backed out. I manually checked fit of cyl bolt to cyl and that is very tight. I measured the width of both the bolts and each notch. On 2 of the notches the bolt is only 0.01 mm narrower than the notch but I can fit the bolt inside the notch. I will tighten the set screw. I am tempted to stop there, reassemble the revolver and test its function @ the range. Does anyone recommend narrowing the bolt or adjusting the bolt drop?
  5. Larsen: the guns are standard, not short stroke. Like I said above they were like this new and have been returned to Uberti. Uberti didn't solve the problem. For now, my work on this is on hold. Had to travel due to family matters. I greatly appreciate everyone's advice and will follow up on your advice when I return. For me that's a weekend day project and not something I'm willing to do an evening after working all day - might be a couple weeks before I'll be able to focus on that. I'll post an update when it's done. In the meantime I'll follow the thread in case anyone has additional comments. thanks again, Pat
  6. Here are what the cylinders look like. The first two are from the cylinder with the smaller bolt notches. The last is from the cylinder with the larger notches. All the notches on the cylinders look like the ones in the photos as far as I can tell. It looks to me like the bolt is hitting the bottom of the notches as I can see the bluing shows wear. The metal at the edges of the cylinders does not show wear like the example SD posted. The edges feel sharp and unworn to my fingers but the photos do seem to show some wear in the first two pics.
  7. Thanks, SD. I've done that and I don't see anything like what's in the picture. Some of the bluing has been removed from the 'B' side of both of mine. On one of them the A side appears pristine, and on the other there's some wear of the bluing. However, I don't see any evidence of peening the edges. I haven't fired the revolvers much compared to my match guns so maybe it just hasn't had time to show up. I also don't see any evidence of peening on the bolts. I haven't put them under a magnifying glass so maybe there's a little peening that I can't see with my presbyopic eyes. If you think it will help I can post pics this evening. When I cycle the revolvers slowly what I see is that the bolt hits the 'B' side as the cylinder rotates, and then appears to slide down into the bolt notch. At that point the cylinders seem locked up pretty well.
  8. Thanks, BB and yup, I'm a big fan of lube. After having a look at the PDFs last night I did some additional tinkering. I cycled the actions and the hammer bolt appears to be operating well - quite like you described it should be operating. I could only properly see what's happening when cycling the revolvers slowly. The bolt seems to go in battery quite well and the cylinders seem to lock with very little play. I measured the slots in the cylinder. One one of them the ends measured 4.03 mm +/- .02 mm. The centers measured about 0.05 mm smaller. The other cylinder had slots that were all about 0.05 mm smaller. I haven't taken a look at the bolts yet as my caliper is far too large to fit inside the frame. The next time I disassemble the guns I'll put the caliper on the bolts to see if that could be a problem. If I see anything that looks out of ordinary I'll post some pics. The cylinders are numbered to match the frames. Since I can measure a difference width of the the slots of the cylinders I am beginning to wonder if maybe that could be it. I wonder if maybe I have swapped the cylinders without noticing and there was a mismatch in the bolt-cylinder fit. Usually when I field strip the revolvers for routine cleaning I do them one by one so that's not likely to happen. The width difference is small so I'm not sure if that's enough to cause a problem but I can test it.
  9. Thanks everyone for your comments. Yes, I did buy these new in fall 2019. Yes I did RTM. They came with the original style bolt springs replace with lighter Wolff springs. That's why I was so eager to replace the bolt springs with the original style spring. These are the 'safety hammers' and the revolvers were supposed to be tuned at the factory. The actions are quite slick but since they're supposed to be tuned at the factory I'll be nice and say the problem doesn't speak well for Uberti. Rum: to be clear, this is not a light primer strike. The hammer nose is striking the cartridge head. Sedalia Dave, thanks a ton for that PDF. I've tried to recreate the problem with snap caps. So far I haven't observed any dents on the heads of the snap caps. When it warms up here in Minnesota I'll bring the revolvers to the range and see how that goes. I haven't yet studied the pdf you attached but it should be very useful. I agree with Ranger Dan's assessment that it could be a real problem in due course if it isn't corrected. Surgeon: that's the first thing I'm going to do this weekend. Thanks. Based on information below this could be at least part of the problem Abilene: I don't know how strong the springs are or how strong they're supposed to be. I did check that indirectly by depressing the hand with a spring tension gauge. On one of the revolvers 2.5 lbs was sufficient to depress the hand into the frame. On the other it was less than 1 lb. I don't know what the specs are but that very well may be the problem with at least one of the revolvers. I'm hoping following The Surgeon's advice will solve that. I also tried spinning the cylinders. Neither cylinder will rotate more than 1/2 turn when spun with or without snap caps in the chambers. Thanks again, Pat
  10. I have two Uberti El Patron Colt copies. If I shoot slowly they function quite well. If I operate them as rapidly as I am capable (and I'm not really all that fast) I will get a FTF at least once every 25 rds or so. It appears to be a timing issue. I can see a dent on the brass that appears to be made by the firing pin/hammer nose. The dent is not on the primer, but on the brass cartridge. The first thing I did was return the revolvers to Uberti but whatever the Uberti smith did, it didn't solve the problem. I was told by a local smith that this problem is often caused by weak bolt springs. I replaced the Wolff springs with original style springs and that didn't solve the problem. I've read up on poor reliability of the Ubertis with the retractable firing pins and many have said FTF due to weak strikes is solved by replacing the safety hammer and trigger with a '4-click hammer and trigger'. Do the readers here think my problem is likely solved by this conversion? I have a pair of Vaqueros that are my main match guns and these function perfectly so they'll continue to be my match guns. However I'd really like to get the Ubertis functioning properly. I'll appreciate any help. Thanks Apothecary Pat SASS 108786
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