Atrocities in Ukraine are starting to surface

[Clay Mosby]

Thanks for correcting my misconception re: civilians and war folks, I had this idea in my one ragged brain cell and obviously it had some errors.  But what I had meant to convey was this. Back 2-3 thousand years or so ago my impression is that while yes, armies lived off the land and rape an pillage was rampant, it was where the army went. I think that when transportation became, well, mechanized, easier to move army from a to b, is when war became generalized beyond where the two physical armies were. That's what I was trying to convey, nothing else. 

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

War has always been fought against the civilian populations. You demoralize political leaders and troops when their families are getting devoured by the devils of war. It has always been just how far will leaders of one nation allow their people to be destroyed before they give in.

[Chantry]

3 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

And this kind of action blurs the line a great deal.

 

Ukrainians have made it well-known that every civilian would fight against the Russians, and apparently the average Russian soldier has been told they would be welcomed. The 'executed' civilians could  very well have been caught in the act of attempting sabotage on Russian forces. I'm sitting comfortable behind a keyboard, so I won't speculate on what my reaction might have been had a feller in civilian clothes ambled innocently up to my AFV with an offer of a drink, then pulled a gun out from under his jacket and shot one of my buddies.

 

You definitely aren't wrong and I expect things to get worse.

 

On one side is a bunch of young, poorly trained, poorly led group of scared young men who were told they would be welcome with open arms, which turned out not to be true.  Instead they find themselves being shot at from all directions, by people who may not be in uniform or fighting "fair"*.  Supplies may not be getting through and they've probably been stuck in badly heated  armored vehicles for weeks during the end of winter.  Some have seen senior officers killed by snipers, drones, artillery and the people who were supposed to welcome them with open arms are feeding them poisoned food.

 

On the other side are a bunch of people fighting for their homes and country who have seen friends & family killed, non-military targets destroyed for no apparent reason then the Russians feel like it,  little or no chance of escape from surrounded cities and very little food & supplies coming in.

 

When one side commits a atrocity or war crime, the other side will retaliate by doing the same.  So expect the downward spiral to continue.

 

I wish I could be surprised by this, but this has happened in most of the conflicts I am familiar with.

 

* There is no such thing as fighting "fair"

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

7 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

And this kind of action blurs the line a great deal.

 

Ukrainians have made it well-known that every civilian would fight against the Russians, and apparently the average Russian soldier has been told they would be welcomed. The 'executed' civilians could  very well have been caught in the act of attempting sabotage on Russian forces. I'm sitting comfortable behind a keyboard, so I won't speculate on what my reaction might have been had a feller in civilian clothes ambled innocently up to my AFV with an offer of a drink, then pulled a gun out from under his jacket and shot one of my buddies.

It does blur who is and isn't a lawful combatant and that makes a world of difference in how they can be treated. 

 

Irregulars in civvies have been known to be summarily executed. 

 

Just because American forces have the discipline not to do things like that, it doesn't mean that it don't happen at all.

[Utah Bob #35998]

10 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

And this kind of action blurs the line a great deal.

 

Ukrainians have made it well-known that every civilian would fight against the Russians, and apparently the average Russian soldier has been told they would be welcomed. The 'executed' civilians could  very well have been caught in the act of attempting sabotage on Russian forces. I'm sitting comfortable behind a keyboard, so I won't speculate on what my reaction might have been had a feller in civilian clothes ambled innocently up to my AFV with an offer of a drink, then pulled a gun out from under his jacket and shot one of my buddies.

At that point he would have been considered an armed combatant. Civilian attire makes no difference.
 In Vietnam, the VC did not wear uniforms in general like the NVA. The “black pajamas” that everyone thinks was a uniform was simply common civilian wear for farmers, villagers, etc. They were treated as armed combatants regardless. 
Summary executions of prisoners regardless of military or civilian status is of course illegal under international law. But the Russians have never been particularly worried about international law when they launch an invasion.

Finland

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Hungary

Georgia

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Crimea

Ukraine

[Buckshot Bear]

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/video-shows-russian-tanks-fire-on-lone-cyclist-in-empty-ukrainian-street/news-story/afa0163db80bea11b919285a8bde0c32