Practice shooting 300 yards at 100 yard range

[Come On Christmas]

I have an opportunity to shoot long range at an upcoming match. I only have a 100 yard range that I can shoot at.

 

I have a ladder sight on a 45/70 H&R Buffalo Especial.

 

Thanks,

 

Shameless Womanizer

[August West, SASS #45079]

Loads (i.e. bullet weight and velocity) ?

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Not enough information and way too many variables to make that estimation.

 

Two elements that are mandatory for that determination are muzzle velocity and bullet ballistic co-efficient. Without these figures, (and accurate ones, not guesstimates), any answer would be simply a WAG.

 

With the correct numbers of these two elements, there are charts that will give the bullet drop from line of sight in inches. You then would have something to work with. Without them well, then nothing to work with.

 

RBK

[Noz]

Old Gun Digest shows that a 45-70 with a 405 gr bullet and factory loads when sighted in at 100 yards will drop 24.6" at 200 and 80.3 at 300.

You take it from there.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I have an opportunity to shoot long range at an upcoming match. I only have a 100 yard range that I can shoot at.

 

I have a ladder sight on a 45/70 H&R Buffalo Especial.

 

Thanks,

 

Shameless Womanizer

 

300 yds is NOT long range.

The only way to ans. your question is for you to put lead down range at the distance you will shoot. Will they allow you to get sight settings before the shoot??

Knowing your load would help in this SWAG.

Respectfully,

LG

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

As they said, not enough info. NOZ has got 2/3's of the solution. But bullet speed is the part missing. Is it 1100fps, 900 fps or 1600 fps.

Using NOZ's 81" drop that would be 27 minutes of elevation as a starting point. Ladder sights usually just list yardage. And what that yardage gradation is based on who knows. Again it was based on what bullet at what speed.

 

Try calling them and ask if they allow sighters in the competition. If not, then its all about being a good guesser.

 

Ike

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Actually a 45-70 bullet will drop something over 5 feet between 100 and 300 yards. Exactly how much depends on the numbers mentioned above.

 

Trying to obtain a good zero using extrapolated numbers is an exercise in futility at best. At that distance the bullet is dropping like a rock. To get a decent workable zero at that distance, you MUST shoot at that distance. Another thing is that your ammo MUST be very consistant in velocity, or your zero won't be consistant with the point of impact.

 

There ain't no free lunch. Either zero at the correct distance, or expect a lot of misses.

 

RBK

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Actually a 45-70 bullet will drop something over 5 feet between 100 and 300 yards. Exactly how much depends on the numbers mentioned above.

 

Trying to obtain a good zero using extrapolated numbers is an exercise in futility at best. At that distance the bullet is dropping like a rock. To get a decent workable zero at that distance, you MUST shoot at that distance. Another thing is that your ammo MUST be very consistant in velocity, or your zero won't be consistant with the point of impact.

 

There ain't no free lunch. Either zero at the correct distance, or expect a lot of misses.

 

RBK

 

5' drop

What are you loading the cases with? Matchsticks maybe

I'm loading 3F Goex and a 540gn. Creedmoor bullet, fired out of a Shiloh Sharps .45-70 and it don't "drop" any 5 feet from 100 to 300 yrds

Cheers,

LG

[Rio Brazos Kid]

5' drop

What are you loading the cases with? Matchsticks maybe

I'm loading 3F Goex and a 540gn. Creedmoor bullet, fired out of a Shiloh Sharps .45-70 and it don't "drop" any 5 feet from 100 to 300 yrds

Cheers,

LG

 

You Might be surprised at the actual drop if you really checked it out. It of course depends a whole lot on the muzzle velocity, but even with gas checks it's going to be hard to achieve much over 1600 FPS without severe leading of the barrels.

 

Hornady states in their tables that a 405 gr. RNFP bullet has a co-efficient of .214 . Going to the tables at that co-efficient, it states at a 100 yard zero, a bullet traveling to 300 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 1600 FPS, will drop 65.4 inches. The same bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1700 FPS will drop 58.5 inches at 300 yards and the same bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1800 FPS will drop 52.3 inches at 300 yards. All thes figures are predicated on a 100 yard zero.

 

Don't know what you are basing your statement on but these are solid, proven, ballistic tables, and there is simply no denying their accuracy.

 

RBK

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

You Might be surprised at the actual drop if you really checked it out. It of course depends a whole lot on the muzzle velocity, but even with gas checks it's going to be hard to achieve much over 1600 FPS without severe leading of the barrels.

 

Hornady states in their tables that a 405 gr. RNFP bullet has a co-efficient of .214 . Going to the tables at that co-efficient, it states at a 100 yard zero, a bullet traveling to 300 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 1600 FPS, will drop 65.4 inches. The same bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1700 FPS will drop 58.5 inches at 300 yards and the same bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1800 FPS will drop 52.3 inches at 300 yards. All thes figures are predicated on a 100 yard zero.

 

Don't know what you are basing your statement on but these are solid, proven, ballistic tables, and there is simply no denying their accuracy.

 

RBK

 

I need 27 minutes of elv. on my .45-70 Sharps to go from 100yds to 300yds with a 540gn bullet at 1250 FPS.

I base my statement on years of real world trigger time shooting BPCRs and LOTS of lead down range. Not some unconfirmed internet info.

Cheers,

LG

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I just did the math on my Sharps. 538 gr bullet, 65 grains of FFG and about 1,000 fps and I'm 28 MOA from 100 to 300yd's. or around 6' of drop. 21' of drop at 500yd's. These things really fall of fast with heavy bullets and low velocity.

 

Again, your ladder sight is going to be a challenge becasue of yardage gradations.

Ike

[Rio Brazos Kid]

I need 27 minutes of elv. on my .45-70 Sharps to go from 100yds to 300yds with a 540gn bullet at 1250 FPS.

I base my statement on years of real world trigger time shooting BPCRs and LOTS of lead down range. Not some unconfirmed internet info.

Cheers,

LG

 

Sorry Lumpy, Ballistic Trajectory is not linear. 27 Minutes of elevation would only be correct at 100 yards. At that point the bullet with that much elevation dialed in would still be rising and would not apex until much farther past the 100 yards, rising even farther above the line of sight. It then would fall to it's calculated elevation at 300 yards. Your statement is simply based on linear trajectory, which is patently false.

 

We will just agree to disagree on this. Your statement of "unconfirmed internet info" is simply pure B.S.. Hornady's Ballistic Lab., developed the stated trajectory figures, and are statistially and mathmatically correct.

 

I'm through with this.

 

RBK

[Doc Tombstone, SASS #49630]

This is an interesting way to figure out trajectory, I did it one yr and took 2nd place at the state long range, furthest target 530 yds.

I had only a 100 yd range as well. The problem is some of it is guesswork, as I recall to be on at 500 yds I needed to print 31 inches high at 100 yds.

What I did is estimate BC, I had BC's of lots of bullets along with their picture, I chose the closest one then went to a computer program that

gives trajectories at different yardages and velocities, I chronographed my load and went from there.

It sort of worked.

Good luck

 

Doc

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

RBK, AGAIN,,,,I ADD 27 min. elv. to go from my 100 yd POI-POA setting, to be POI-POA at 300 yds. To make it on target at 600yds I add 89 min. from my 100 yd setting This is not SWAG, I have my sight settings from 50yds to 1K and know the "come-ups".

Just to add more. I only need 18 min. in my .45-90(same 540 gn bullet)to go from my 100 yd setting to 300 yds.

AGAIN, this is "hands-on" shooting that I have been doing for many years........

RBK, how long have you been shooting BPCR?

Cheers,

LG

[Copenhagen]

I am assuming you are using the factory front sight with a veeneer rear but if you are using one of the aftermarket(not factory)changable front sights then the extra height of the front sight would throw another monkey wrench in the variables as sight height over the bore will change impact area at distance with a given zero. Charts and drop doesn't change but the angle of bullet travel changes depending on sight over bore.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I am assuming you are using the factory front sight with a veeneer rear but if you are using one of the aftermarket(not factory)changable front sights then the extra height of the front sight would throw another monkey wrench in the variables as sight height over the bore will change impact area at distance with a given zero. Charts and drop doesn't change but the angle of bullet travel changes depending on sight over bore.

 

IF this was for me.

I use an MVA Long Range Soule and their #113 front.

The same insert at all ranges.

Cheers,

LG

[John Boy]

With a 400gr bullet, get your base line 100yd setting on your vernier then add 21 to 23 minute increments out to 300yds. This will get you on the paper but you have fine tune the MOA's to get in the bullseye

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Anyone that asks a question like this obviously is not seriously ready to shoot long range at a major match. You need to find a load you will be shooting then shoot it at ranges from 100 yards to further than 300 yards at least every 50 yards or so and carefully document the settings on your rear sight to obtain your point of aim to exactly hit the target at each distance. Then when you find out the distance the targets will be set for the match you can determine rear sight settings for that match. The next issue is some clubs use two targets at different distances and you can only set the sights for one and then use a hold over or hold under for the other distance target. Then you have to know how to correct for various winds at various distances, oh well, good luck.

[John Boy]

Shameless, here's a better way:

FREE Trajectory Software-Point Blank ... http://huntingnut.com/index.php?name=PointBlank

Get your 100 yd baseline with the reload you intend to shoot. You have velocities so you don't need a chronograph. Shoot the reload you intend to use, crank the values into Point Blank and run a trajectory table.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

RBK as Lumpy said his elevation change was from 100 yds adding 27 MOA from his 100yd settings to get to 300.

 

Your 65.4 inches of drop from the 100yd settings is 21MOA of eevation at 1600 fps. If you drop down to Black powder loads, heavier bullets and supposedly shooting no faster than 1100fps the bullet would drop more than 65.4"

 

The final thing here is we are all right. It comes down the load, the sites, and the shooter.

 

Just tough to guess no matter what.

Ike

[THE CALHOUN COUNTY BA]

I have an opportunity to shoot long range at an upcoming match. I only have a 100 yard range that I can shoot at.

 

I have a ladder sight on a 45/70 H&R Buffalo Especial.

 

Thanks,

 

Shameless Womanizer

 

There is only one way to tell.... Shoot your gun and ammo at 300 yds. and go from there.

CCBA

[Copenhagen]

IF this was for me.

I use an MVA Long Range Soule and their #113 front.

The same insert at all ranges.

Cheers,

LG

No LG

Not for you. Was just throwing out another variable that the OP is going to have to account for.

Cope

[Rio Brazos Kid]

RBK as Lumpy said his elevation change was from 100 yds adding 27 MOA from his 100yd settings to get to 300.

 

Your 65.4 inches of drop from the 100yd settings is 21MOA of eevation at 1600 fps. If you drop down to Black powder loads, heavier bullets and supposedly shooting no faster than 1100fps the bullet would drop more than 65.4"

 

The final thing here is we are all right. It comes down the load, the sites, and the shooter.

 

Just tough to guess no matter what.

Ike

 

Ike'

You are 100% correct. Lumpy's 540 gr bullet running say 1100 FPS would indeed drop far more than the 65 inches I used for my illistration. Where he going wrong is believing that trajectory is linear with sight adjustment at both distances. That part just isn't so.

 

I'm sure Lumpy is a viable contender at shooting long range, and knows his rifle and the sight adjustments by heart. There's no question of that. Where he apparently could use some instruction is in exterior ballistics as it pertains to sight adjustments. However that is not important if you have access to actually zero at all pertinent distances, and I presume that he has.

 

It wasn't my intention to create a heated discussion, but I have probably more years at competitive shooting and reloading, than most on here are old. I have reloaded since 1952, and shot one or another of the many shooting disciplines ever since, and still do. I have an in depth knowledge of both internal and external Ballistics.

 

I think the OP has, or should have all the answer he needs at this time. That being that he simply isn't ready for long range competition until he has had the opportunity to accurately zero his rifle at the distances he will be shooting. Extrapolating accurate sight settings for that distance, with heavy, slow moving bullets, is almost totally impossible. Success would entail extreme luck.

 

RBK

[John Boy]

From my log book:

45-70 Victory PGT 550gr 1:30 Starline Br2 Primer Swiss 1.5 70gr 0.003 Fiber Wad 1198fps

Sharps - 34" Barrel

0 MOA=100yds Base line on this Sharps is zero @ 100yds

14 MOA=200yd

29 MOA=300yds

44 MOA=400yds

63 MOA=500yds

83 MOA=600yds

162 MOA=1000yds