What's this Call?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Aaaah, some of you noticed that the SG could be made up at anytime, PLUS, you also noticed that S1 and S4 were to be ENGAGED as the first action on the stage.

 

In this instance, S1 and S4 are not 'required' to fall but rather engaged (either shot at or attempted to shoot at).

 

This give the shooter some options whether they shoot the SxS, 87, or 97 and whether they also grab 2 or 4 due to their abilities.

 

Plus, I'm learning alot from all the post.

 

Thanks

 

..........Widder (yep, I'm on PWB's black list)

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

OK, shooter has a single knockdown shotgun target on the stage to be engaged after 10 pistols are shot and 5 rifle targets shot-double tap. Shooter shoots pistol targets and rifle targets clean. Shooter needing shotgun loading practice or whatever and decides to shoot at each of 10 pistol targets and 5 rifle targets with his shotgun before aiming at the single shotgun target which he misses 5 times before finally knocking it down. Call=clean when single shotgun target finally falls assuming Comstock rules apply to the stage/match. Some of you would be proposing to give the shooter 15-20 misses. Obviously shooter still needs shotgun practice!

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

If the rules are used as written and not as you might like them.

The flow chart says;

 

The RO1 training material defines engaged as;

 

There fore S2 and S3 were engaged out of order.

Should have been S1 S4 then rifle and pistol.

Then S2 and S3.

 

Engaged does not necesarily mean hit.

 

Again a P for the shooter.

I still hope PWB checks in on this thread.

SG KDs that fail to go down are MISSED until and unless they are made up. So, we have two shots fired in the direction of an array of SG targets that MISSED. Since they were KDs, NO MATTER WHERE the shots went, so long as no non-expendable props were hit, and the ground within 10 ft of the shooter was not hit, they are MISSES, which of course can be made up. WE DON'T READ MINDS, so unless S2 or S3 WENT DOWN, no call. Had S2 or S3 gone down on those 2nd or 3rd shotgun shots, ya have a P.....

 

Even IF we were talking Pistol targets, if i am supposed to shoot P1, then P3, if I aim at P3 before P1, and MISS, it's only a miss. The distinguishing difference when dealing with KDs is they vcan be grazed, nicked, scared, looked at funny, or even swore at, but unless they fall, ya still have a miss. The scenario said misses were not charegeable as they could be made up (and were).

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

AJ, Replace for the moment the knockdowns in this stage with swingers. The same conditions. S2 and S3 having been nicked ie according to golden bb rules they would have been hit. And it would have been a P. Right? Hence they were the target (lot of assumptions) but what other targets could SG shot 2 and 3 have been aimed at? Certainly not well aimed at 4. The spacing of the targets stated as 2 ft apart makes it unlikely that the nick on S2 could not have been a shot at S4.

 

 

And I hear you about KDs being HIT when knocked down BUT here the stage instructions say ENGAGE not hit S1 then S4.

The hit/miss flow chart also uses the term ENGAGE not hit, nor miss but engage.

So where was SG shots 2 and 3 aimed at? Because we don't have a square hit on something we cannot determine the real target? What target was being engaged? My BEST estimate is S2 and S3. Certainly not S4 as required by the shooting order specified in the stage instructions.

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

If pointing the gun and pulling the trigger (bang is optional) is "engage" and the shooter fired at least 2 shots, then we got "engage" for purposes of this stage. A KD target can't be a miss or a P if it hasn't gone down. A fixed target can be grazed, a swinger can just barely move but KD's are down or up -- If it's still up, it's been engaged and that's it. It's not a miss until he runs out of ammo and heads to unloading table. It's not a P because nothing happened. If the wrong target DID go down, now we have evidence of a P. I don't care where he pointed the gun as long as it's down range somewhere, shots were fired so he "engaged" per the instructions.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

There is a little confusion about the term "engaged". I think they have tried to address it, but found that it would require a "law book" to address it any better - then we would be in worse shape!

 

So I think Lou Graham nailed it pretty well.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Ah the he$$ with it...do whatcha all wanna do.

 

Me, I'll not call a P...and be okay with myself.

 

And my therapist said that's what's important right now...

 

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

So I think Lou Graham nailed it pretty well.

+1

 

+1 OY VEY!

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Hacker, the deal is this. KDs can suck when they fail to drop when hit like ya meant it (we've all been there), but the infrequent flip side is they "save" you a P or a charged miss if ya tinkle one and it don't go, and it happens to be the WRONG one.... Ya still lose the time and the reload, and ya stil look like a doofus, ya just get a break on scoring. It's sorta like the pistol target ya aimed at and missed, while the RO is screaming "not that one". Ya hget a miss, but no P. It is sometimes better to be lucky than good....

[Bad Hombre #23212]

No P!!

If you want to use the definition of "engaged" to call a P, than use it completely.

 

"The RO1 training material defines engaged as;

 

Quote

 

Engaged – attempting to fire a round at the target."

 

If a shooter, "fires a round at a target, he'll hit the target.

So the shooter must have fired where the target was not and therefore did not engage it!!!

 

BH