New Rule proposal?

[Blackwater 53393]

here is my nickles worth, I like the rule, I am of the mind set if you do not finish for what ever reason you should not get any award.

I have heard of Shoot throws to many time where if somebody has to leave for what ever reason they could, after making some kind of arrangement with the match director. If winning, bragging rights and that imaginary Cadillac is that important to you that you would risk your health to win, then stay around and shot instead of going home. Now I know Badlands Bud can kick my a$$ 10 ways from Sunday, in his sleep, both hands tied behind is back or what ever saying you want to use but if he did not finish I don't expect to see him get an award.

 

By the same token, I wouldn't want to be declared the winner if I'd shot every stage and Bud had to leave due to illness, injury, or other emergency before the match was finished, and he'd still beat me by any amount, regardles of scoring system, one hundredth of a second or one rank point.

[Curly Red Ryder]

PS Look here at page 18, shooter 634, appears to not have finished the match as there are scores for some stages; but, not for 8 out of 12. Ditto page 17, shooter 620. Ditto page 16, shooter 565.

 

This is posted to verify that the convention at EOT is not to score two or more DNFs as a MDQ.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

Howdy sweet Allie

 

I was just reading the Handbook and rules just as written and not interpreting them according to the intentions of the ruler!

 

In our last match (OWSD previous WE), we had some shooters who cannot stay for the whole match (family obligations or lack of holidays) but when they arrived first in their categories (small categories as only 54 shooters attending) they were rewarded.

 

By the way I've no problem when a shooter cannot finish (or begin first stages) the match, but I think a shooter not finishing it as unhappy of his first results or being angry against the match or the officers needs to be sanctionned by applying the rules, the full rules, SDQ if only one stage not shot FOR THESE REASONS and MDQ for 2 or more stages.... SOG is not an enough sanction in that case.

 

Hope to see you in Vegas in December and will be happy to meet everybody...

 

Regards

 

CRR

[Roy's creek Dan, SASS 73697]

Since I know who the TG is that presented the proposed rule change to his club, when I read "Tell the TG to practice more" it made me laugh.

.... and "his people" didn't think this up. The TG happens to win in his category OFTEN at EVERY Level. He is just doing what a good TG does...telling his club about any proposed rules so he will know how his club wants him to vote on it.

 

 

1+

[The Shoer 27979]

By the same token, I wouldn't want to be declared the winner if I'd shot every stage and Bud had to leave due to illness, injury, or other emergency before the match was finished, and he'd still beat me by any amount, regardles of scoring system, one hundredth of a second or one rank point.

 

I don't like winning by default ether regardless of scoring system is used. No finish No award. If you leave before the match is over you forfeit the match

 

Somebody used NASCAR as an example. Let me use poker for an example which would be better. You have 100 players start with the same amount of money but different levels of playing experience. you are winning, they are dropping one by one. You get to the last table with the most money and the last 5 players, all you have to do is beat the last 5 and your the champ. But instead you leave for what ever reason( your bored, you fall, your sick, your dog dies, you have a hang over). But instead of giving the title and trophy to one of the 5 that stayed and played to the end, they gave you the title and the trophy because you had the most money when you left. Some of you think that is the right way to do it but it isn't.

[Two Rig a Tony , #54423]

This rule if it ever comes up needs no explaination.

If you don't finish the match for what ever reason you get a DNF and should not win the match or category and should be at the bottom of a score sheet.

Also if you get a Match DQ in rank scoring you should not be eligible to win or place and should end up at the bottom of the score sheet.

 

Forget all the hypothetical situations this is only common sense.

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

Done! Test sent!

 

 

........ and received ... Thank You

[BJT]

Someone is seriously proposing that shooter A, who points an unloaded gun at a spectator, should be eligible to win but shooter B, who had to go to the hospital for surgery before the match was over, should not?

 

I have to hope those that create the agenda have better judgment.

 

Cheers,

BJT

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Let me use poker for an example which would be better. You have 100 players start with the same amount of money but different levels of playing experience. you are winning, they are dropping one by one. You get to the last table with the most money and the last 5 players, all you have to do is beat the last 5 and your the champ. But instead you leave for what ever reason( your bored, you fall, your sick, your dog dies, you have a hang over). But instead of giving the title and trophy to one of the 5 that stayed and played to the end, they gave you the title and the trophy because you had the most money when you left. Some of you think that is the right way to do it but it isn't.

 

Apparently you have no idea how a poker tournament works.

If you amass enough chips (lead on the other players) - You don't have to play until the end.

You can quit and go home and still place above other players that keep playing.

I have done it on a number of times.

Last weekend was an instance, went into the final table with a huge chip lead - ten players remaining.

I left the table and went to dinner for a couple blind levels.

I returned to the table with three players left. After I QUIT playing, seven players that played longer than I did - placed worse than I did.

Giving up my blinds every round was my penalty for not playing.

 

If you can complete all your college credits in one year - nothing requires you to continue attending college for another three.

And just because other students did show up for four years doesn't automatically mean their GPA should surpass yours..

 

If you are challenged to a race to see who can walk the furthest distance in 10 days. And you walk further in six days than your challenger can in ten, so you decide to go home for the last four. He doesn't magically beat you and win.

 

And If in a CAS match, you amass enough of a lead that you can afford the penalty for not shooting (full rank points), then you can skip out and still beat folks that remain behind.

[Jacknife]

Well said Creeker.

[Blackwater 53393]

Apparently you have no idea how a poker tournament works.

If you amass enough chips (lead on the other players) - You don't have to play until the end.

You can quit and go home and still place above other players that keep playing.

I have done it on a number of times.

Last weekend was an instance, went into the final table with a huge chip lead - ten players remaining.

I left the table and went to dinner for a couple blind levels.

I returned to the table with three players left. After I QUIT playing, seven players that played longer than I did - placed worse than I did.

Giving up my blinds every round was my penalty for not playing.

 

If you can complete all your college credits in one year - nothing requires you to continue attending college for another three.

And just because other students did show up for four years doesn't automatically mean their GPA should surpass yours..

 

If you are challenged to a race to see who can walk the furthest distance in 10 days. And you walk further in six days than your challenger can in ten, so you decide to go home for the last four. He doesn't magically beat you and win.

 

And If in a CAS match, you amass enough of a lead that you can afford the penalty for not shooting (full rank points), then you can skip out and still beat folks that remain behind.

 

That's what I'm talkin' about!

[The Shoer 27979]

Apparently you have no idea how a poker tournament works.

If you amass enough chips (lead on the other players) - You don't have to play until the end.

You can quit and go home and still place above other players that keep playing.

I have done it on a number of times.

Last weekend was an instance, went into the final table with a huge chip lead - ten players remaining.

I left the table and went to dinner for a couple blind levels.

I returned to the table with three players left. After I QUIT playing, seven players that played longer than I did - placed worse than I did.

Giving up my blinds every round was my penalty for not playing. apparently you DID NOT QUIT if you were giving up blinds every round. If you had quit you would not have been giving up blinds every round

 

If you can complete all your college credits in one year - nothing requires you to continue attending college for another three.

And just because other students did show up for four years doesn't automatically mean their GPA should surpass yours..

But if you QUIT school before you get all your college credits you DO NOT get your degree ether

 

If you are challenged to a race to see who can walk the furthest distance in 10 days. And you walk further in six days than your challenger can in ten, so you decide to go home for the last four. He doesn't magically beat you and win.

Wouldn't matter you QUIT

And If in a CAS match, you amass enough of a lead that you can afford the penalty for not shooting (full rank points), then you can skip out and still beat folks that remain behind. if you like to QUIT before you finish something go ahead and Quit don't expects to get any Award or rewarded for QUITING

 

Some of you don't get it when you QUIT you lose, it doesn't mater if you are better then me or everybody else at a match, race or poker table, you QUIT for any reason, you forfeit you lose. You have no claim to any awards or rewards for QUITING.

 

A lot of you remind me of all those liberal Soccer moms that say we don't keep score so everybody wins. You quit you lose, I like the rule i hope it pass now, didn't care before

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Someone is seriously proposing that shooter A, who points an unloaded gun at a spectator, should be eligible to win but shooter B, who had to go to the hospital for surgery before the match was over, should not?

 

I have to hope those that create the agenda have better judgment.

 

Cheers,

BJT

Ta Daaa!! Some of the folks using NASCAR and other sports as an example are forgetting the mind set behind Rank scoring. As much as I don't care for Rank scoring it is what it is. In Rank scoring a six stage match is not really a six stage match, it's like six matches in a championship. If shooter A come up with a better score after only 4 stages (matches) than shooter B does in 6 stages (matches) then shooter A wins the campionship.

Just like in NASCAR's 10 races to win the Sprint Cup. Driver A can have a couple of blown motors and a couple of wrecks and only finish 8 of the 10 races. But if he aquires more points in thoses 8 races than driver B does in 10, driver A wins the champioship, same thing can easily happen with Rank points.

 

With Total Time scoring this would rarely happen since a DNF would cost you 150 seconds for a 10-10-4 stage. Rare but it could happen in certain categories with only a few shooters. With Total Time we look at as 6 stages in a match, just like NASCAR 500 laps in a race, first one to the finish line wins. Another good reason to forget Rank scoring and go to Total Time

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[BJT]

Some of you don't get it when you QUIT you lose, it doesn't mater if you are better then me or everybody else at a match, race or poker table, you QUIT for any reason, you forfeit you lose. You have no claim to any awards or rewards for QUITING.

 

A lot of you remind me of all those liberal Soccer moms that say we don't keep score so everybody wins. You quit you lose, I like the rule i hope it pass now, didn't care before

 

 

Consider the scoring. Least rank points win. Not shooting a stage results in maximum rank points. If you still have less than another shooter, you whipped him.

 

No one even considers playing the bottom of the ninth if the team at bat already has more runs. On the other hand, you can never win a race if you never cross the finish line.

 

Our game does not determine the winner by who crosses a line first. It is determined by who has the least rank points at the end of the match.

 

It is interesting that you do not apply the same thinking to a SDQ. That stage is over when the infraction happens. The poor schmo who comes the the line with the rifle on half-cock never even hears the beep. He did not shoot the stage and yet he gives you no heartburn.

 

 

Something does not add up there.

 

Cheers,

BJT

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Some of you don't get it when you QUIT you lose, it doesn't mater if you are better then me or everybody else at a match, race or poker table, you QUIT for any reason, you forfeit you lose. You have no claim to any awards or rewards for QUITING.

 

A lot of you remind me of all those liberal Soccer moms that say we don't keep score so everybody wins. You quit you lose, I like the rule i hope it pass now, didn't care before

 

 

You want to call names?

We KEEP score, we KNOW who won, no matter how much you want to award points for participation.

 

If a shooter is GOOD enough to not shoot the entire match and they can still win?

They are better than the other folks there, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise.

 

So in your world, no one should ever retire early just because they have earned enough money to do so?

You better work until you're 70 or The Shoer doesn't think you honored your committment.

 

Your NFL team has no chance to make it to the playoffs, if we sit the 1st string Quarterback.

The Shoer says If you don't play every down - you've no right to win.

 

I have had bosses with this same ignorant view.

"I don't care if your work is done, you need to be here at least eight hours. The other people will feel bad if you put in less time than they do."

 

You want to label anyone a liberal soccer mom?

Best look in the mirror, cause you're the one claiming participation means more than results.

[The Shoer 27979]

Consider the scoring. Least rank points win. Not shooting a stage results in maximum rank points. If you still have less than another shooter, you whipped him. At the end of the match (how ever many stages there are) if you do not shot all the stages you did not finish the match. You quit no award

 

No one even considers playing the bottom of the ninth if the team at bat already has more runs. On the other hand, you can never win a race if you never cross the finish line. the team at the top of the ninth has already lost, better yet, if your the winning team at the bottom of the 8th and you walk off the field I suppose all of you would still consider them the winners. If you leave before the last stage there still is that possibility you could screw up you know, do bad, get a penalty, SDQ, MDQ. none the less you still quit no award

 

Our game does not determine the winner by who crosses a line first. It is determined by who has the least rank points at the end of the match. that's right when you quit and leave early you did not go to the end of the match, there still is the possibility of penaltys . You did not finish the match you quit no award

 

It is interesting that you do not apply the same thinking to a SDQ. That stage is over when the infraction happens. The poor schmo who comes the the line with the rifle on half-cock never even hears the beep. He did not shoot the stage and yet he gives you no heartburn.

Sorry did not know we were talking about SDQs here too, I would be happy to discuss it with you in another tread

Something does not add up there.

 

Cheers,

BJT

[The Shoer 27979]

You want to call names? I didn't call you a name and if I did, I did not mean to an I apologizes for that

We KEEP score, we KNOW who won, no matter how much you want to award points for participation. thats right we keep score if you do not finish how can you say you won you DID NOT finish

 

If a shooter is GOOD enough to not shoot the entire match and they can still win? if you are that good why waste your time even going to a shoot, plus if you did not shot ALL the stages how can they win when you did not finish

They are better than the other folks there, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise. it Doesn't matter if they are better, you are missing the point they did not finish they quit

 

So in your world, no one should ever retire early just because they have earned enough money to do so?

You better work until you're 70 or The Shoer doesn't think you honored your committment. get real Creeker we are talking about a game

Your NFL team has no chance to make it to the playoffs, if we sit the 1st string Quarterback.

The Shoer says If you don't play every down - you've no right to win. sorry you have me confused on this one Creeker

 

I have had bosses with this same ignorant view.

"I don't care if your work is done, you need to be here at least eight hours. The other people will feel bad if you put in less time than they do." I have had bosses like that too, can't type here what I told them. but if you expect 8 hours pay for 6 hours of work, it ain't going to happen. That's also another reason I try not to work for other people. Plus if I only put 3 shoes on a horse instead of 4, do you realy think I am going to get paid

 

You want to label anyone a liberal soccer mom?

Best look in the mirror, cause you're the one claiming participation means more than results. no Creeker you need to look in the mirror your saying, I don't have to finish all 6 stages because I kicked everybodys ass in 4 so I don't have to finish I already won, But you did not finish

 

 

Creeker this is just a debate

[Blackwater 53393]

I'm thinking about the similarities between the rank point system and ooooohhhhh.... Idunnnoo...... Boxing!

If I win more points than my opponent in a twelve round match, I win. If my opponent wins seven rounds but every round I win is a 10-7 round, and each one he wins is a 10-9 round then I win 113-99. A stoppage for injury is the equivalent of me being top shooter in each stage giving me a total of 5 rank points and if my opponent was 16th in each of those stages he has 80 rank points. I start feeling bad and in the next stage I fall to tenth and receive 10 rank points and my opponent maintains his average for another 16 points. I now have 15 rank points and my opponent has 96 rank points. At this point I'm unable to continue because I'm too sick (which we'll compare to an accidental clash of heads resulting in a cut over my right eye, forcing the doctor to step in and stop the fight) we go to the score cards. My opponent is able to continue but I'm forced to quit. No fault of my own, but I can't continue. My opponent continues to shoot and maintains his 16th over all average and finishes with 192 rank points. There are twenty shooters and so my rank points for the last six stages total 120 plus the 15 I accumulated for the first six stages equals 135 rank points. The knockout is the equivalent of either me or my opponent receiving a MDQ which then makes the scorecard irrelevant.

 

It's a lot like Creeker's poker analogy, or the NASCAR championship points system.

 

The World Series is another good example. The Yankees win the first four games and go home. The Mets could show up for the last three games and win by forfiet, but the Yanks still win the Series.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

I kinda think of this as being a corollary to the SOG / Failure to engage penalty.

But in spades.

 

The overall match has n stages. If you complete n - 1 stage you did not complete the match.

You did not engage all the stages.

You are not a winner.

Unless all shooters don't complete that stage.

[Holden A. Grudge]

I am hesitant to contribute to this debate as I haven’t been around as long as most of you and don’t get to shoot nearly enough but this is what I see;

 

This started out talking about folks leaving shoots early for one reason or another such as, medical concerns, family issues, prior appointments. Basically, things beyond their control.

 

The debate now seems to have evolved into shooters leaving early because they feel they have done well enough to win with the scores they posted and don’t feel like continuing.

 

As to the latter, I just don’t see it happening. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen but everybody I have shot with is there to shoot and enjoy the day. They don’t stop and pack up merely because they feel they have clinched the win.

Those shooters that truly are striving to be the best are the ones who would hate to leave a match early and not get to shoot every single stage.

 

I just don’t see anyone ducking or hiding or riding on their laurels. Those who have had to leave a match early, in my limited experience, have done so for good reason. If in the stages they did get to shoot they did well enough to be recognized I don’t see a reason to take that away.

[Two Rig a Tony , #54423]

I have seen a lot of dumb reasoning on this wire in the past but with out a doubt this debate takes the cake.

It can not be made any more clear (you quit a match) you win nothing, you get a MDQ (you win nothing).

 

 

You can come up with all the NASCAR stuff or excuses you want (he was sick, his mother called him home, his dog died, what ever), you quit, you are not intitled to win anything. Further more if you accept an award after quiting! Well I think you know what I think no need to put a name to it.

 

Oh yeah the ans. to your question yep, my TG did mention it a week or two ago.

[BJT]

Is it only the last stage that counts?

 

Is the shooter misses the second stage but shoots the rest including the last stage, he has finished? What is so special about the last stage?

 

How is missing a stage from a SDQ different than missing a stage from being in the hosptial?

 

Odd stuff.

 

If you consider a rank point match, as has been pointed out so often, each stage is it's own game. In a series of games, you only forfiet the games you do not attend, not the entire series.

 

Cheers,

BJT

[Blackwater 53393]

So, if you (whoever you are) and I are shooting on the same posse and in the same category, and during the sixth stage of the match, I've already shot the stage and while spotting for you, I'm struck by a peice of stray lead from your rifle and require medical attention, I must return immediately to shoot stages seven and eight, or I'm sumarrily prevented from receiving an award? I return to shoot stages nine and ten and my rank point or total time score is better than yours, but I can't receive an award because I was struck by all or part of a bullet out of your gun and had to miss a couple of stages, but you can?

 

Note here I didn't quit. Also note that stages seven and eight that I was unable to shoot are some posse's last stages.

 

I know, I know, this is an extreme example, but no less extreme than some of the silliness I've read as reasoning here.

[Two Rig a Tony , #54423]

So, if you (whoever you are) and I are shooting on the same posse and in the same category, and during the sixth stage of the match, I've already shot the stage and while spotting for you, I'm struck by a peice of stray lead from your rifle and require medical attention, I must return immediately to shoot stages seven and eight, or I'm sumarrily prevented from receiving an award? I return to shoot stages nine and ten and my rank point or total time score is better than yours, but I can't receive an award because I was struck by all or part of a bullet out of your gun and had to miss a couple of stages, but you can?

 

Note here I didn't quit. Also note that stages seven and eight that I was unable to shoot are some posse's last stages.

 

I know, I know, this is an extreme example, but no less extreme than some of the silliness I've read as reasoning here.

 

 

Under those cercumstances most match directors would let you go back and shoot the stages you missed, then your OK, if you choose not to shoot the two stages you missed you failed to complete the contest, why would you think accepting a prize is the right thing to do?

[Jacknife]

BD, now doncha think that if you were able to come back and shoot 9 and 10, that they would also allow you to make up the stages 7 and 8 that you missed? Just a thought.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I have seen a lot of dumb reasoning on this wire in the past but with out a doubt this debate takes the cake.

The game has been played that way a long time; meaning "if you quit, you get a DNF (maximum rank points at a rank points match) for the stages you do not shoot. So, in effect, you are calling everyone who put on or agreed to participate in a match with this scoring method "dumb." That is no argument at all. It's just condescending name calling.

 

It can not be made any more clear (you quit a match) you win nothing, you get a MDQ (you win nothing).

You state an opinion with no reason behind it. Support your claims, especially if you want to insult the opposition in the process.

 

You can come up with all the NASCAR stuff or excuses you want (he was sick, his mother called him home, his dog died, what ever), you quit, you are not intitled to win anything. Further more if you accept an award after quiting! Well I think you know what I think no need to put a name to it.

Again, you state an opinion with no reasoning behind it. I know what you think but not why. Support your claims and leave out the insinuations of unsportsman like conduct. Again, this has been the situation for years.

 

Oh yeah the ans. to your question yep, my TG did mention it a week or two ago.

Bravo to him/her.

Tony,

 

Your post is the type that gives the Wire a bad name. Name calling is not becoming. A well-reasoned argument would be much better, regardless of which side you are on.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Must have got up on the wrong side of the bed as I had an overwhelming urge to vent.

PPS Next poster, step up.

[Jacknife]

-----------"why would you think accepting a prize is the right thing to do?"

 

 

 

Cause if he shot good enuf and the rank points led to his prize, he earned it and deserves it. That ain't too hard to figger out.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I don't like winning by default ether regardless of scoring system is used. No finish No award. If you leave before the match is over you forfeit the match

 

Somebody used NASCAR as an example. Let me use poker for an example which would be better. You have 100 players start with the same amount of money but different levels of playing experience. you are winning, they are dropping one by one. You get to the last table with the most money and the last 5 players, all you have to do is beat the last 5 and your the champ. But instead you leave for what ever reason( your bored, you fall, your sick, your dog dies, you have a hang over). But instead of giving the title and trophy to one of the 5 that stayed and played to the end, they gave you the title and the trophy because you had the most money when you left. Some of you think that is the right way to do it but it isn't.

Hi Shoer,

 

If your standards tell you that you cannot accept an award in this situation, you can decline it. That is "the right way (for you) to do it" according to current rules.

 

This is the SASS (not any of the other activities mentioned by anyone here) and "them's the rules." Please don't fault others for playing within the rules that have been used in our beloved sport since the '80s.

 

That said, if the membership votes to equate a DNF with a MDQ, I will have to play by those rules.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Blastmaster]

What I find interesting is that there is a definite line in the sand on this topic. Either the poster is way over on one side of the topic line or way over on the other..It seems there is no middle ground.

 

 

 

Blastmaster

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

What I find interesting is that there is a definite line in the sand on this topic. Either the poster is way over on one side of the topic line or way over on the other..It seems there is no middle ground.

 

 

 

Blastmaster

Pard,

 

I can honestly see some validity to arguments on both sides. However, SASS history is to be lenient with DNFs. I've seen poor and good reasons for not finishing. IIRC, most reasons for not finishing are not frivolous.

 

I do not wish to have that leniency go away or become the match director's prerogative.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

If you choose not to shoot the two stages you missed you failed to complete the contest, why would you think accepting a prize is the right thing to do?

 

Because if I can miss two stages and STILL beat the other shooters, then I am the best shooter there.

Why would you want a shooter who is obviously inferior to accept the prize?

 

I shot an annual a couple of years back and earned a stage DQ (120 seconds worth of misses + 30 seconds = 150 seconds total)

 

I ended up coming in 2nd in category, beating out five or six other shooters who "Completed" every stage.

And if I had kept my focus in the stages after the DQ, I could have taken 1st.

Should I have refused the award?

 

I thought the awards were for the best shooter, not the best participant.

The penalty for not shooting a stage is misses for all the targets + 30 (total time), or maximum rank points (RP match).

 

You guys keep saying "It's not fair, that they didn't shoot the stages, they might have gotten a penalty that changed everything"

So unless you believe that the shooter that was kicking everyones hind end so severely that they can afford to not shoot a stage or three and still win will suddenly become so spastic that they earn a MDQ. The logic is ridiculous.

They are already GETTING the maximum penalty that they can on the stages they don't shoot.

 

And if they can do that AND still beat you? They deserve to win.

 

Ya know in cop shows (or politics), they always say "Follow the money".

Meaning, find who benefits from a given stiuation and you will usually find out who is responsible for a given situation.

 

One wonders what shooter (with enough pull to get this as an item) LOST to a better shooter who left a shoot early and so came up with this rule to ensure it never happened again?

[Holden A. Grudge]

They are already GETTING the maximum penalty that they can on the stages they don't shoot.

 

And if they can do that AND still beat you? They deserve to win.

 

 

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. And honestly I was on the other side of this debate when it started but if accepting an award after not completely shooting a match is somehow dishonorable then what is accepting an award even though you got beat?

[The Shoer 27979]

 

Ya know in cop shows (or politics), they always say "Follow the money".

Meaning, find who benefits from a given stiuation and you will usually find out who is responsible for a given situation.

 

One wonders what shooter (with enough pull to get this as an item) LOST to a better shooter who left a shoot early and so came up with this rule to ensure it never happened again?

 

Those 2 reasons are the biggest reasons why, we get stuck with BULLSH*T rules/laws in games and real life

[Blackwater 53393]

Under those cercumstances most match directors would let you go back and shoot the stages you missed, then your OK, if you choose not to shoot the two stages you missed you failed to complete the contest, why would you think accepting a prize is the right thing to do?

 

Tony, it was an extreme example so if we extrapolate the extremety to it's logical most extreme, we'll just throw in some time or weather constraint.

 

I've both won and lost by the rules as they currently exist. As recently as this summer another shooter was extremely ill the first day of a match that I was having major equipment problems on. I wasn't concerned with winning after a looooong third stage and shifted into "let's have fun and enjoy the weekend" mode. On the second day the aforementioned shooter really shot well, and by rank points at the end of the match he bested me by a few points. We were both close to the bottom of the overall field, and in this case neither of us placed high enough to take home an award, but if there had been a few less participants in our category things would have been exactly as the OP described.

 

Like Allie said, we've been doing it this way for a long time and most folks I know don't care to change it. I don't have a problem with it either way, I'm just tired of the "If your not winning, change the rules," attitude.

 

For me, let's make FCGF a S.A.S.S. recognised category and legalize the '93 Winchester and '98 Marlin shotguns. The first one cause most everybody wants it and the second so's I can shoot my "real" period correct single action toys, (really 'cause I got several and I hate to have them just sit in the safe)

[Black Harris #154]

This is probably a good time to close this thread and let tempers cool.

 

BH