Dirty Chris Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I picked up some 3f APP recently, and it's different than before. It's black instead of gray, and seems to be a little bit finer granulation. I recall someone mentioning before that APP was changing their formulation, but I haven't heard if it shoots any different than the old stuff. Kinda curious why they changed it and what the difference is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I noticed it to, I'll find out if there is any difference this weekend. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I called APP to find out about it when I noticed it. They told me no difference, just different coloring agent.They also told me the granulation was the same, just the black color makes it look different. I was told it would shoot the same, and so far (several hundred rounds), I've seen no difference. I haven't chrongraphed the new stuff, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Just loaded up 100 rounds of it, and it seems much less dusty than before. Also meters well through my powder measure. My next match is GOA, so I think I'll shoot these on side match day to test it out and save my previously loaded ammo for the main match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Loving Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Just loaded up 100 rounds of it, and it seems much less dusty than before. Also meters well through my powder measure. My next match is GOA, so I think I'll shoot these on side match day to test it out and save my previously loaded ammo for the main match. That in incouraging news. I started with APP, but thought it was too messy for my 550B. Went through other synthetics but utlimately ended up using Holy Black exclusively. App would be nice to use when your equipment may have to sit for a couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I've not seen it, so this is just speculation. They have made for years what they called "Shockey's Gold", a premium top of the line sub. It sold for 5 or 6 dollars more than the regular product, and was identical to Goex Pinnacle. Some even said they were the same product. I just wonder if they have dropped that designation and are making all their product to the Gold specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Oh I thought ya meant an APP for an IPhone I just use real BP, never liked the old APP so I wouldn't use the new stuff either. No flame and no boom! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlefork Bob, SASS #53945 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If they could reduce the dust they would have a BIG WINNER!!! on their hands. I would buy a case of the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaslight, SASS#30516L Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yes, much less dust. Also, meters much better and less down time cleaning machine. I have noticed no difference in performance. Gaslight, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Oh I thought ya meant an APP for an IPhone I just use real BP, never liked the old APP so I wouldn't use the new stuff either. No flame and no boom! Rye +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pukin Dog, SASS#55356-Life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 +1 What the heck is this APP stuff. The REAL stuff, aka charcoal, sulphur and potassium nitrate seems to work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Do not use dust as an indicater for cleaning your machine. If there is any moisture in the air you will get rust faster than you can imagine. All of the subs I have used attract moisture like crazy and start rust just that fast also. Perhaps due to the darkness of the powder residue, Pinnacle seemed dustiest to me and the old Clean Shot seemed least dusty. Many have disagreed with me on this 'dusty' opinion but I guess it is a matter of perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Pop" Dawson Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 All I have found lately is the Jim Shockley Gold, especially in the loose powder. Is this all they are producing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have not used the Gold but after Pinnacle was dropped I went back to APP and would assume it is still around. I was thinking that APP and 777 would end up being the only choices left for the modern sub loaders, of which I do not consider Pyrodex in the same category. Guess that with my stores of APP getting low I will need to research this Shockys Gold to see how it compares to APP. I have been using those self lubing bp subs in cartridges for many years now but still use the real bp for shotshells, cap and balland lr rifle loading. I love it when the chest thumper bp shooters shoot beside me and do not even realize that we are not shooting the same thing in our cartridges, unless I tell them. If real bp closes the price gap much more I will just change to all subs and laugh when they price themselves out of the market, price was the only real advantage they had for the last ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 APP has been improved several times since 2003. Current production is much less hygroscopic than early production, and less dusty. Pinnacle was made by APP for Goex. It was a different formulation, but I found it very close in chrono results. I haven't tested Jim Shockey's Gold lately, 2-3 years ago I found it less powerful and less accurate than regular App In .38 Specials. No reason to pay extra for it. At my next chrono session I plan to compare loads loaded in 2007 with powder just received. My perception is less dusting than "grey" APP, but compressed air every 50 rounds is still needed. Compared to 777, APP is less gritty. I can't use 777 in the '73 for many rounds without stickiness. 777 is slightly less dusty. Before using APP in your Dillon, disassemble your powder measure and coat your powder bar with One Shot. It's a dry lube and will keep the bar running smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlefork Bob, SASS #53945 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I suppose there is no way to know if you are buying the new APP FFF or some old stuff without opening the bottle. Most shop owners tend to frown on that practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I suppose there is no way to know if you are buying the new APP FFF or some old stuff without opening the bottle. Most shop owners tend to frown on that practice. Well, new is relative. We were getting the black stuff last year, so it's been out there. But, as luck would have it,APP apparently got a big supply of bottles with "sticks" labels on them, and, to use them up they stuck on Avery-like labels with APP FFFg on them (all I get is 3f). Those are all "new" APP. But "Black" vs. "Grey" is not the demarcation between "old" and "New." They've made several running changes since 2003. "Constant improvement" is what the APP exec told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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