McCandless Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 A while back I asked a question... It was: "Since the RO is supposed to be watching the shooter, counting shots, watching for unsafe gun handling or unsafe movements, helping the shooter through safely through the stage, and not watching the targets... If he sees a procedural that the spotters did not, can he call it?" The responses I got pretty much all said, of course he can! So, now I have another question (the other side of the coin) that came up yesterday... Since the RO is supposed to be watching the shooter, counting shots, watching for unsafe gun handling or unsafe movements, helping the shooter through safely through the stage, and not watching the targets... If he sees that a procedural did not occur, when two spotters says did happen, (one spotter asserted it did not), can he over rule that? by the way... these did not happen to me, so I've got no axe to grind. Just an interested observer. Thanks y'all, McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The RO is the only one that can make a non spotting call. He can agree with the spotters (1, 2 or 3 of them) recommendations or not, or he can be the only one that makes the call. It does not require any spotters to see an infraction. Many times the RO is in the best position to see a safety call or even a procedural call. For safety calls and Procedural calls the RO does what he thinks is a correct call or no call based on spotter input and what he saw. The RO can over rule the spotters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 delete, double tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The RO is the only one that can make a non spotting call. He can agree with the spotters (1, 2 or 3 of them) recommendations or not, or he can be the only one that makes the call. It does not require any spotters to see an infraction. Many times the RO is in the best position to see a safety call or even a procedural call. For safety calls and Procedural calls the RO does what he thinks is a correct call or no call based on spotter input and what he saw. The RO can over rule the spotters. Yep, that's the way I read the RO's responsibilities. Without getting pushing about it, he can question the spotters on miss calls also. As GCK said, he is (or should be) in a great position to see any edge hits or such, and even if all three spotters claim it was a miss, and he saw the edge hit, he can ask for clarification, point out the spot he saw the edge hit... and re-poll the spotters. Not necessarily overrule them on misses... but certainly question the calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yep, that's the way I read the RO's responsibilities. Without getting pushing about it, he can question the spotters on miss calls also. As GCK said, he is (or should be) in a great position to see any edge hits or such, and even if all three spotters claim it was a miss, and he saw the edge hit, he can ask for clarification, point out the spot he saw the edge hit... and re-poll the spotters. Not necessarily overrule them on misses... but certainly question the calls. On misses the RO can poll and ask spotters questions, but spotters ultimately offer their calls individually and the RO takes their call and gives it to the scorekeeper. On a P, the RO takes input from the spotters but he alone decides to issue a P or not. The RO is free to accept or reject the spotters input based on his observations. No spotter can "make" a scorekeeper record a P, nor force the RO to accept his version of what happened. The spotters offer input on Ps, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Dangit Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't want to stir the pot but you might want to reread the ROI and II handbook or ask an RO instructor. I just took RO II and this question did come up. We were told the RO cannot override the spotters he poles them and should not be counting hits and misses. We had this come up at a shoot last year and when it went to CC he said the same. Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't want to stir the pot but you might want to reread the ROI and II handbook or ask an RO instructor. I just took RO II and this question did come up. We were told the RO cannot override the spotters he poles them and should not be counting hits and misses. We had this come up at a shoot last year and when it went to CC he said the same. Just my two cents Read my post above yours. We are in complete agreement. That said, sometimes an RO does see a hit that is called a miss, and may poll the spotters or offer that he thinks there was an edge hit, they might wanna look the target over close, etc. Ultimately the RO accepts the spotters count and may not override it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't want to stir the pot but you might want to reread the ROI and II handbook or ask an RO instructor. I just took RO II and this question did come up. We were told the RO cannot override the spotters he poles them and should not be counting hits and misses. We had this come up at a shoot last year and when it went to CC he said the same. Just my two cents The RO cannot override the spotters he poles for hits and misses, but does have the final say for procedural penalties. The RO poles the spotters on misses, but asks for input on procedural penalties. RO I page 7 C) The Timer Operator does not have the authority to overrule the spotters but can question spotters as to location of misses. The Timer Operator does have the best advantage to see the direction the muzzle is pointed, which is helpful in edge hits. RO I page 8 K) The Timer Operator polls the three Spotters to determine the number of misses and/or procedural penalties input, and then calls those numbers to the Score Keeper and the competitor in a loud, clear voice. RO I page 10 H) It is up to the Timer Operator to verify at least two of the three Spotters agree on misses. RO II page 6 The Chief Range Officer shall determine any misses by polling the assigned spotters and communicate the misses and any procedural or safety penalties to the person recording the score, as well as the shooter Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 On misses the RO can poll and ask spotters questions, but spotters ultimately offer their calls individually and the RO takes their call and gives it to the scorekeeper. Aye, I didn't mean to intimate that the TO can override the spotters, but he doesn't have to blindly accept their call if he thinks it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Please don't pole yer spotters. It might get their attention but ye will surely need them for the next shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Please don't pole yer spotters. It might get their attention but ye will surely need them for the next shooter. A (very) few of 'em need it. Most don't. It prob'ly won't help them that do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Knee high to a tadpole down on the farm, Grandpa had a small dairy herd he milked twicet a day. One evening they all dutifully filed into the barn to be milked. All but this one recalcitrant stubborn contrary ole Guernsey named Red Eye. Ole Red Eye kept galumphing around the lot refusing to go thru the barn door. Finally Grandpa had had enuff and picked up a cedar fence post. Old and dry and hard as a rock. Proceeded to pole ole Red Eye right between the eyes. She went down to her knees. Grandma screamed, "Oh Frank, ye've killed Red Eye..."!!! Not so. Red Eye picked herself up and went straightway into the barn. Ever after that, if she wasn't first into the barn she sure as heck warn't never last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four Bucks #36386 Life Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 And all this time I've been "polling" the spotters. Can't wait till the next match! Four Bucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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