Marshal Max Henry Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 For the side matches what is the limitations for pocket pistols Barrel length , caliber, can it be a break top or double action if you use single action? Looking toget a pair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 You really only need one. Most pocket pistol side matches are four shots on one or more paper plates at very close distance. Good Luck Shooters Handbook page 17 • A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers. Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Howdy Well, I'm glad Jefro was able to find the information in the Handbook, because I ain't found the handbooks in the new forum format. Anyhoo, yes, you can use a breaktop pocket pistol, and if it is a double action you can shoot it double action. You really only need one, pocket pistol events are side match events and they usually don't happen at every monthly club match, usually only at the larger matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I would say that you should also double check on any particular one that may confuse you, as some do seem to make both main match and pocket pistol status. We know that there are at least three main match guns that are also small frame models and at least one model has has been deemed as legal both ways by PWB. I actually like the little glitch that occurred in the rule when it came to frame sizes but it does create a situation where SASS needs to make a correction or two. I actually do not think that SASS ever anticipated allowing small frame revolvers into the Main Match scheme of things BUT sometimes "Ask and ye shall receive". I would certainly like to see SASS seek our input before changing this outdated wording of the rule though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 We know that there are at least three main match guns that are also small frame models and at least one model has has been deemed as legal both ways by PWB. ??? That's news to me. Usta be if it was OK for a Main Match pistol it was not allowed as a Pocket Pistol, and vice versa. Care to fill us in on the exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ??? That's news to me. Usta be if it was OK for a Main Match pistol it was not allowed as a Pocket Pistol, and vice versa. Care to fill us in on the exception? Yes, it would seem the last sentance would preclude that. • A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Some matches, such as the Guns of August Regional, will have separate side matches for single and double action pocket pistols. At GOA you must have a single action PP to enter that side match, you are not permitted to shoot a double action operating it single action. Those old single action pocket pistols, usually spur triggers, present their own challenges to shoot quickly and allowing the DA's would not be fair. I shoot a Smith and Wesson New Departure ("Lemonsqueezer")for my DA and a Smith and Wesson single action for my SA. It took me about two years to locate a decent single action Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippin kid Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Could I use Grandma's H&R 32 short Top Break DA? It's last pat. was April 7, 1896? Grandma carried it her whole life as a State Beauty Shop Inspector for Pennsylvania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Could I use Grandma's H&R 32 short Top Brake DA? It's last pat. was April 7, 1896? Yes, the H&R, S&W, and Iver Johnson style top breaks, as well as the S&W Lemon Squeeze are very popular. • A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The dirt is in the wording and the definition of what constitutes a small frame pistol. We know that except through some sleight of hand there is no way to consider the Model P Jr or the Ruger .32 Single six as anything but small frame. To call it any other way means we are traveling down thet famous river n Egypt! I do not even remember how SASS got around that one but I am thinking some sort of special inclusion and they may have even closed the door on going backwards with those two models. We reach the same situation for those of us who play Frontiersman with the small frame .31 caliber revolvers, the ones they didnt think about. Remember that the .32 bore size is legal for main match categories except Frontiersman (and perhaps one or two of the funky newer cats) and that would exclude it with one exception, the cartridge conversion cylinder creates a whole new animal. We now add several new small frame, short barl 32 revolvers that are essentially meets the same criteria as what was made legal with the above mentioned Pjr and .32Baby Vaq. Now you can call me a liar and Ill return in kind for you and yore horse BUT its a fact that the '62 Colt has been, on different occasions, been said to be legal as a main match pistol and a leagal side match pistol in the last couple of years. I questioned these occurrences as they happened and the fact was not disputed in either way. These were posts that PWB had become fully vested in and made those calls. I personally think the wording of the rules actually support his inability to make a definitive statement on most of these! It must be a heck of a situation to have to run to a group and come up with a new ruling when there is no rule. There are some easy fixes for the situation but sometimes our lack of ability to find a middle ground and SASS being extremely slow to respond makes it tougher than it should be. Include the .32 and its frame size as legal for all main match use, period, and that includes Frontiersman. Frontiersmen must accept that the numbers support the .31 (32) as far more popular throughout the cap and ball period than was the .44 and it is needed to do away with the confusing double standard and remember, the 15gr rule should prevent any realistic use of the Lilliputians! Remove the frame size specification from the rule and make the only size criteria for pocket pistol one that is based on dimension and weight. A simple wooden frame with agreed upon internal dimensions and a cheap set of postal scales settles all arguments without arbitrarily playing a favorites game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The dirt is in the wording and the definition of what constitutes a small frame pistol. We know that except through some sleight of hand there is no way to consider the Model P Jr or the Ruger .32 Single six as anything but small frame. To call it any other way means we are traveling down thet famous river n Egypt! I do not even remember how SASS got around that one but I am thinking some sort of special inclusion and they may have even closed the door on going backwards with those two models. We reach the same situation for those of us who play Frontiersman with the small frame .31 caliber revolvers, the ones they didnt think about. Remember that the .32 bore size is legal for main match categories except Frontiersman (and perhaps one or two of the funky newer cats) and that would exclude it with one exception, the cartridge conversion cylinder creates a whole new animal. We now add several new small frame, short barl 32 revolvers that are essentially meets the same criteria as what was made legal with the above mentioned Pjr and .32Baby Vaq. Now you can call me a liar and Ill return in kind for you and yore horse BUT its a fact that the '62 Colt has been, on different occasions, been said to be legal as a main match pistol and a leagal side match pistol in the last couple of years. I questioned these occurrences as they happened and the fact was not disputed in either way. These were posts that PWB had become fully vested in and made those calls. I personally think the wording of the rules actually support his inability to make a definitive statement on most of these! It must be a heck of a situation to have to run to a group and come up with a new ruling when there is no rule. There are some easy fixes for the situation but sometimes our lack of ability to find a middle ground and SASS being extremely slow to respond makes it tougher than it should be. Include the .32 and its frame size as legal for all main match use, period, and that includes Frontiersman. Frontiersmen must accept that the numbers support the .31 (32) as far more popular throughout the cap and ball period than was the .44 and it is needed to do away with the confusing double standard and remember, the 15gr rule should prevent any realistic use of the Lilliputians! Remove the frame size specification from the rule and make the only size criteria for pocket pistol one that is based on dimension and weight. A simple wooden frame with agreed upon internal dimensions and a cheap set of postal scales settles all arguments without arbitrarily playing a favorites game. I'm not mad at anyone and sure don't want anyone mad at me, but I am confused. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers. To me this it is either a "pocket pistol", or a main match revolver, but can't be both. Perhaps PWB could clarify this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm not mad at anyone and sure don't want anyone mad at me, but I am confused. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers. To me this it is either a "pocket pistol", or a main match revolver, but can't be both. Perhaps PWB could clarify this. The primary issue is BARREL LENGTH. If the barrel is longer than 4", it is NOT LEGAL as a pocket pistol. If it is 4" or shorter, it IS considered a pocket pistol...& therefore NOT LEGAL for use as a "main match firearm". (this is in reference to the 'small frame' percussion revolvers with or without a conversion cylinder). The "P" frame revolvers (of any size or barrel length) are specifically DISalllowed as pocket pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thank you PWB, that is exactly how I remembered it. It is win win for the fans of the '62 model as it can be had for both uses just by purchasing in different lengths. Old Col Colt considered this the finest revolver he ever designed and I am somewhat tempted to agree with him, especially for someone who carried a lot but had low threat expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you go up top left & look right under where it says IP Board you'll see a link to SASS HOME. Click it and then look a couple inches under the big pic & youll see "Shooters Handbook & Rules". You'll find the answers to a lot of your questions there about the requirements for guns & clothes and what is allowed & what isn't. Or you can simply click here; http://www.sassnet.c...ndbook-001A.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJT Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Leading to the following conversation....... "whatchya doin banging on that shooter with a hammer Clem" "well Billy Bob, I is a hammerin on this here cylinder pin to make the barrel short enough to change this here main match gun into a pocket pistol for the side match this afternoon....." Course he is gonna have to ask the MD if the barrel length does or does not include the cylinder gap...... Spose he could just file down a second barrel and swap em out....... The primary issue is BARREL LENGTH. If the barrel is longer than 4", it is NOT LEGAL as a pocket pistol. If it is 4" or shorter, it IS considered a pocket pistol...& therefore NOT LEGAL for use as a "main match firearm". (this is in reference to the 'small frame' percussion revolvers with or without a conversion cylinder). The "P" frame revolvers (of any size or barrel length) are specifically DISalllowed as pocket pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.