jks1911 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Hi, I have a question for the members on the wire. I have a cimarron 1873, in 45 colt. I have fired about 200 rounds of lead round nose bullets. Today I tried to fire some silver tip hollow points and had feeding problems. The round jams when I try to close the lever. If you take the rifle off your shoulder and play with the leaver after several trys I can get it to chamber/load. Is this common? Will a tune up help? Or will the 73 just not handle hollow points? After that question, can some of the members name a few of the better gun doctors, a guy who can make my 1873 sing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Sounds like your gun doesn't like those hollow points. Save those Silver Tips for self-defense. Stick with a round-nose lead cast bullet. There are many good 'smiths for the '73. The most recognized is Cody Conagher. Longhunter is also considered very good. Also Manatee, Colorado Coffinmaker, Goatneck Clem, and Nate Kiowa Jones. You can contact just about all of them on the Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 What's the overall length of the Hollow Points, compared to the LRNs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colts A Blazing Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I'm with Crusty. I imagine it has more to do with OAL than the bullet. 1873 rifles load straight into the chamber like a torpedo in a submarine so bullet shape is less of an issue than with an 1892 which feeds on an angled carrier. CAB What's the overall length of the Hollow Points, compared to the LRNs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I wouldn't shoot ANY Hot loads in a Toggle Link rifle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Could also be lead build up in the chamber if you're shooting soft lead and the gun was bought used. Before taking it to a smith try several passes through the chamber with a lead remover. Relatively cheap at any good gun shop. Silver Tips should not be a problem feeding as they are w/in SAMI specs for OAL. If that doesn't fix the problem then take it to a smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jks1911 Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Thanks for responding, so far. The silver tips are not "hot loads". They are loaded for all guns, winchester keeps them low for all age guns. The gun is new, I clean it after each day of shooting. It looks like the brass round lifter is not coming up 100%. I guess it could be over all length. I know all my ammo is new factory stufff. Yes the hollow points would be a self defence round. I have other guns but having the rifle around I like checking in case I want to use it for home defence. I will try one of the smiths youall listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Winchester Silver Tips are not a bad bullet shape to get to feed in a '73. First off, it's a jacketed round - which is NOT legal for CAS shooting, so pards here have less experience with this load than with Cowboy loads and their lead slugs. A slug with a semi-wadcutter shape, including a sharp shoulder behind the tip, will often feed badly in a 73 because the bullet slops around in the carrier, but Silver Tips have a nose that is pretty similar to a CAS standard Round Nose Flat Point, except for the hollow point in the very tip. If the carrier is not rising all the way, and the cartridge cannot get a straight shot into the chamber as the bolt starts coming forward, that is CERTAINLY a problem. Check with a good 'smith, as you will probably have difficulties with other cartridge shapes, too. A Silver Tip cartridge is not close enough to maximum allowable Overall Length that it should have problems feeding in a '73. If the carrier can get the round started moving up from the magazine, it should be able to chamber it. The carrier shaft is a built-in cartridge max length gauge. Flip the gun upside down, work the lever partly open, lay a cartridge on the bottom surface of the carrier block. If it fits easily into the carrier shaft, it is NOT an overall length problem. When you have jams, look down from the top of the carrier to see if you have a round that is, instead of being straight in the carrier block, the rim (base end) is angled over to the right side of the carrier. If you see THAT happening, then you have a bad or missing bevel in the mortice (window) that rounds pass through from the loading gate to the carrier and magazine. That would be a more likely problem. If you see angled rounds, check back with us for a good article on how to fix that problem. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Read this and then measure your rounds. Sounds like they are to short. http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=5274.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 referring to Hodgdon's reloading data... The .357 Magnum generates pressures up in the 40,000 CUP range. Regular .45 Colt loads generate pressures in the teens, and the .45 Colt loads to be used only in Rugers and Thompson-Centers and Freedom Arms guns get up into the 30,000 CUP range. So if a toggle link rifle can tolerate 40,000 CUP with a .357, it should be able to manage a .45 Colt load, shouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 referring to Hodgdon's reloading data... The .357 Magnum generates pressures up in the 40,000 CUP range. Regular .45 Colt loads generate pressures in the teens, and the .45 Colt loads to be used only in Rugers and Thompson-Centers and Freedom Arms guns get up into the 30,000 CUP range. So if a toggle link rifle can tolerate 40,000 CUP with a .357, it should be able to manage a .45 Colt load, shouldn't it? Not at all! It's bolt thrust (pounds of force back through the bolt) that tears up the toggles, not chamber pressure. The .45 Colt has probably 2x times as much area on the case head. From folks having many years of experience with cartridges like .44 special and .44-40, you will wear out a toggle link real fast with the big cartridges (like 45 colt) and pressures over SAAMI specs (about 15,000 psi). Good luck, GJ BTW, Win SilverTips are within SAAMI specs for the .45 Colt. Safe in 73's. Not a Hot Rod load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Not at all! It's bolt thrust (pounds of force back through the bolt) that tears up the toggles, not chamber pressure. The .45 Colt has probably 2x times as much area on the case head. From folks having many years of experience with cartridges like .44 special and .44-40, you will wear out a toggle link real fast with the big cartridges (like 45 colt) and pressures over SAAMI specs (about 15,000 psi). Good luck, GJ BTW, Win SilverTips are within SAAMI specs for the .45 Colt. Safe in 73's. Not a Hot Rod load. A= (pi)®® for .357: A = 3.14(.18)(.18) = 0.102 for .45: A = 3.14(.225)(.225) = 0.159 so the .45 Colt has about 60% more area on the bolt face, just for figurin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Without turning the .45 Colt into a magnum, I am not sure that the bullet will reach a velocity that ensures expansion for most hollowpoints. The .45 is going in at almost the largest diameter that 9's and .357's will expand to. Also, the rifling in most '73s is shallow in order to handle lead bullets. Shooting a softer lead (Brinell 1-12) lead bullet would also allow a good deal of deformation if you are hunting with this gun. Experienced leadbullet shooters/hunters that have suggested this tactic for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jks1911 Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thanks for all the posts, I think my rifle needs a tune up. I think I will try Mr. Jones, I live in East Texas and he is close to my area. I hope if anyone has more info regarding rifle work/gun smiths then let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.