Reloading 45LC with Unique

[T-Post Eric, SASS #77428]

Howdy all! Hope everyone is keeping warm this holiday season. I've got a quick question. I'm using Unique smokeless powder to reload 45LC. Using Lasercast 250gr Lead Roundnose and using the only recipe that the Lee Reloading Manual shows for this boolit. After shooting, when extracting the spent cases from the cylinder, I've noticed that there is black residue around the case mouths. Is this due to the powder I'm using or from something else?

 

Thanks for all responses!

 

T-Post

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yep, powder stains from blowback of some of the gases from combustion. The .45 Colt case is thick and does not seal a cylinder chamber very well until you get to higher pressures. In a revolver, it really is not a problem. (In rifles the amount of blowback can be distracting if the gas vents into your face).

 

Check your load against the data found on the Alliant web site. Get a good loading manual (Hornady, Speer, Lyman), as the Lee manual is NOT sufficient if it has only one recipe for Unique.

 

A tighter roll crimp on the case mouth will often help build pressure a little higher and reduce the blowback. You can compare your crimp to the crimp on factory loaded ammo to see if you could stand a little tighter crimp. Some powders burn a little cleaner than Unique in .45 Colt (such as Titegroup, Clays, American Select). A heavy slug, like your 250 grain, normally helps chamber sealing a lot, so it's surprising you have much blowback with your load - perhaps it's a light load of 800 feet per second or so?

 

But, in general, you are worrying about something that really does not affect functionality of the revolver. The powder stains will clean off in a case tumbler, which might be something you want to put on your Christmas list, assuming you have been a good cowboy this year. Shoot it and be happy.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Carolina Cowboy]

Howdy T-Post

It might be from your crimp not being tight enough, but there will always be some residue on your shells after you shoot, I have not seen any that comes out totally clean after being fired ...I asked same question when I first started shooting, and went back and tighten my crimp, I shoot trail Boss, and there is some black residue reguardless of what you do, but that is why we tumble our brass before reloading , hopes this helps and Merry Christmas and Happy New year

[Grapeshot 8553]

Light loads for the .45 Colt as listed in most Reloading Manuals will cause that soot to form around the case mouth. This is because the case des not obturate fully. It is only when you have a fairly heavy load that the case expands enough to seal the chamber completely. A heavy crimp wil help in this matter somewhat as will annealing the case mouths, a laborious chore, letting the brass expand more to seal the chamber.

 

Most of us put up with it and tumble the cases after we shoot. Then there are those amongst us that subscribe to a full case of BP and a 250 grain bullet to get full obturation. That's why they call us Wart Hogs and Dark Masters of the Soot.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

The pards are correct, it is a pressure issue.

 

For some reason, Lee lists powder charges lighter than just about every other manual.

 

I have Lee as well as my Speer and Lyman Pistol and Revolver manuals open in front of me right now. We are not allowed to list specific data here on the Wire, but I can tell you that Lee's load for that bullet has the exact same charge for both the minimum and the Max load for Unique. That is kind of ridiculous to begin with. There should always be a range of charges available, min and Max should not be the same. He does the same thing with a couple of other powders too. This is why I seldom refer to Lee.

 

As I said, Lee is very conservative in all his loads. For the exact same bullet, Lyman lists a minimum load two grains below Lee, and a Maximum one grain above Lee. Speer actually lists a load slightly above Lee's load as a minimum, and a Maximum 1 1/2 grain more than Lee.

 

All this shows why it is a good idea to have more than one manual handy.

 

Yes, Unique is a dirty powder, but the way it bulks up has always made it a favorite of mine. Much easier to see an over load of Unique than three flakes of Whiz Bang.

 

For what it's worth, I seldom shoot Smokeless in CAS anymore, but when I do my 45 Colt load is 1/2 grain below Lee's load. Yes, it makes the cases a little bit sooty, but so what? They clean right up in the tumbler.

 

For what it's worth, both the load you are loading and the load I load are considerably more powerful than most current Cowboy loads for 45 Colt. They have more recoil too. As a matter of fact, that load that Lee lists is the exact same as the commercial load for 45 Colt that was on the market for many years. As long as you are good with a little bit of recoil, which 45 Colt is supposed to have, and a little bit of soot, it is a fine load.

[Sheriff Oso, SASS #57788L]

I used to use Unique, but switched to Clays, because it SEEMED to burn a little cleaner. Then I found a better CRIMP really helped!

I was shooting 205 gr .452's in my rifle, but when I levered the next round in, burning powder kept flying up and out and falling behind my glasses and burning my eyelids (not fun), so I switched to the LONGER 250 gr .452, tightened the crimp, and the rifle blowback became a non-issue!

I still use a 205 gr .452 in the pistols (with the same amount of Clays, and the same crimp etc. as in the rifle.)

 

Yeah, the rifle brass is HOT to pick up, and the pistol brass'll turn your figers black, but WHO CARES!

 

No Harm is being done to the guns, shooters, or speck-taters. just take all the brass home, tumble em good, and reload em.

 

One thing I found that helps make a "more complete burn" is using MAGNUM primers. I guess they get more powder burning sooner. There is no obvious difference in performance or blowback, but the cases SEEM a BIT cleaner (or it is wishful thinking..who knows)

 

I stayed with Clays so I only have to buy one powder for both rifle/pistol & shotgun. I load rifle & pistol with the same die set up, marking the bases of my rifle rounds with green Sharpie for 2 reasons.

1). I know which are for the rifle

2). the Brass collectors know the green X .45 rounds are mine (and the plain ones are not)

 

 

FWIW..YMMV.

 

SOso.

 

p.s.- tho i do not recommend this, my crimp is so tight that, should the Dillon fail to drop powder, the primer will NOT dislodge the bullet, thereby giving me one miss instead of a bunch and a squib to clear! I once had 3 lead bullets lodged in the rifle barrel before the RO stopped me. Now I have a rifle with a pair of interior bulges, but it still shoots straight enough for CAS. Remember-I DO NOT RECOMMEND crimping that tightly...but it works for me, and I rarely get split cases!

[Trailrider #896]

Light loads for the .45 Colt as listed in most Reloading Manuals will cause that soot to form around the case mouth. This is because the case des not obturate fully. It is only when you have a fairly heavy load that the case expands enough to seal the chamber completely. A heavy crimp wil help in this matter somewhat as will annealing the case mouths, a laborious chore, letting the brass expand more to seal the chamber.

 

Most of us put up with it and tumble the cases after we shoot. Then there are those amongst us that subscribe to a full case of BP and a 250 grain bullet to get full obturation. That's why they call us Wart Hogs and Dark Masters of the Soot.

 

Howdy, Pard,

 

CAUTION! Unique (and its counterpart, Hodgdon's Universal) are medium-burning pistol powders. As such, they are best-suited for use with heavy bullets like the 250 gr. .45. They do NOT lend themselves to light loads, and experience and data have shown that they really should be used with bullets no lighter than 230 grains. I also STONGLY recommend that loads for these powders should be NO LIGHTER than 10 percent GREATER than the difference between the MINIMUM and maximum loads suitable for Colt's Single Actions. In addition, be sure to use an expander plug correct for the bullet diameter you are using, i.e. a .45 ACP plug for .452" bullets and a .45 LC plug for .454". Also, a FIRM ROLL CRIMP is mandatory. It should be sufficient to be seen, but quite so much as to collapse the case. The reason for these recommendations is to prevent a condition known as "premature shot start," which can cause extremely high pressures if the bullet should stick in the forcing cone.

 

If you feel you must shoot reduced loads with lighter bullets, go to a faster-burning powder.

 

Ride careful, Pards! Happy Chanukah! Merry Christmas! Happy Kwanza! And a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America!

 

Your Pard,

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy Again

 

I agree with everything that Trailrider says, I always do.

 

Let me just add that 'clean burning' is a quest that many reloaders go on, but I really don't see the point. I have not yet found a single action revolver or lever rifle that jams up because of a little bit of soot on the case. We are not shooting finicky semi-autos here. The only real advantage to clean brass is that it is easier to find in the grass. I eventually changed to Black Powder because Unique was not sooty enough.

 

If you want to stay with heavy bullets, Unique will serve you just fine. If you decide that you want to shoot light loads, then look for another powder.

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

This is one for the "get used to it" list .....

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

I use the Alliant cowboy load for my 45Colt Revolver. I use the starting load with Unique, a 240 gr. pill and a very tight roll crimp. It shoots just as clean as my Alliant American Select 44 special loads in my Colts.

 

Unique has always needed a tight crimp for all bullet weights.

 

BTW; it is a very good powder for the 44 & 45 cartridges.

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

Light loads for the .45 Colt as listed in most Reloading Manuals will cause that soot to form around the case mouth. This is because the case des not obturate fully. It is only when you have a fairly heavy load that the case expands enough to seal the chamber completely. A heavy crimp wil help in this matter somewhat as will annealing the case mouths, a laborious chore, letting the brass expand more to seal the chamber.

 

Most of us put up with it and tumble the cases after we shoot. Then there are those amongst us that subscribe to a full case of BP and a 250 grain bullet to get full obturation. That's why they call us Wart Hogs and Dark Masters of the Soot.

American Heritage Dictionary:

ob·tu·rate to close or obstruct

Doc Holiday"Evidently Mr. Ringo's an educated man"

[Pigeonroost Slim , #36403]

THis topic is discussed by Iron Duke, er, uhh, Mike V. in the new 4th edition Lyman Coast Bullet Handbook. Heavy cases, big spacious BP capacit with way too much extra room for efficient use of most smokeless propellants. I lean more to getting the internal sizing correct than in applying heavy crimps that may distort our boolits and acutally weaken the retention. The RCBS Cowboy 452 and 454 sizers serve well for cast lead alloy. A mild annealing of case mouths on about every 3rd reload can help too, but don't go crazy with that or the retention will be reduced.

 

prs

[Neches 50502]

Tighten your crimp a little bit.