Rip Snorter Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 42 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: ?????? https://genius.com/Dave-van-ronk-duncan-and-brady-lyrics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: I do understand the pushback and even agree with some of it. Regardless of performance - an electric motor will never elicit the the same auditory visceral reaction as a hi lift lumpy cam V8. The pollution equation doesn't change - it just changes the location. And battery disposal will cause issues. But dang - I want to be optimistic. That tomorrow CAN be better than today. That the world my children and grandchildren inherit will be a world of wonders and achievement undreamed of. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said: https://genius.com/Dave-van-ronk-duncan-and-brady-lyrics ????????? And that has what to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: ????????? And that has what to do with anything? Early adopters! I should have noticed your place of residence - sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Rip Snorter said: Early adopters! I should have noticed your place of residence - sorry! I got to the line, "shot a hole in his chest" and stopped reading. Worthless, stupid, opium dream set to music. Didn't play it, either. Have tp get in a dig about CA, didn't you? Sorry if I don't have a low enough sense of humor for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Charming, and with fine taste in music as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Not arguing that EV's are coming, and sooner rather than later. Just asking how much is being considered here but a little history might be of some benefit. Just taking a look at one aspect of the possible upcoming projects. The Interstate system was declared finished in 1991 at a cost of approximately $114 Billion in 1991 dollars equaling about $500 Billion in 2008 dollars, $629 Billion in 2021 dollars, $678 Billion in 2022 dollars. Initial estimates during the Eisenhower era were $27 Billion in 1954 dollars. Conceptually it was authorized in 1944 and first groundwork was initiated in 1947. Upgrades and additional on/off ramps, bypasses and exits were added over the years as were additional miles (particularly in urban areas), The system was paid for primarily through federal fuel taxes (which has not changed since 1993) and they are currently at 18.3 cents per gallon of gasoline and 24.3 cents per gallon of diesel. While a system that incorporates charging through the highway roadway could make sense and would most likely only require a single lane to be replaced my non binding WAG would be 1/2 of the cost of the entire system, (since you would be replacing 1/2 of the roadway) or about $339 Billion in 2022 dollars, (plus the cost of infrastructure to get electricity to the charging units and the construction of the power source(s) needed fire up the whole thing), and thence to charge the autos. Since I am in a generous mood (and being a long time watcher/planner of how long government projects take to complete) my time frame to completion (another WAG) would be 1/2 the time to build (about 34 years) presuming availability of equipment, crews and materials. No way to calculate the cost in dollars for the untold hours of traffic congestion as the system would necessarily not function at optimum efficiency/traffic flow for years. Costs/time for permits to replace the roadway, dispose of the removed material and eventual repair/maintenance of the new roadway can be staggering and seeing how a simple resurfacing or replacement of concrete can take years to complete on a relatively short stretch of highway today, I would opine that 3 decades to bring the project to fruition is optimistic. And don't forget the roughly $100 Billion spent between the states and the federal government to perform maintenance on the roads (non-charging version) as they exist today, 46,876 miles worth. Some estimates of complete replacement from scratch contemplate costs of nearly $100 million per mile for land acquisition, materials, manpower and equipment. An amount that New Jersey paid in the late 1970's to build I-195 BTW. Since we already own the land currently used for highways that amount could be deducted from the cost but my head is exploding from the estimates I looked at which were all over the board. Even a CNN article from last year estimated $2.6 TRILLION over 10 years to replace the system with a more modern one. Not an impossibility, Americans have tackled and conquered huge projects in the past and could most likely do the same today, but the costs, time investment, citizen frustration balanced against potential benefits to society seem to need to be VERY carefully studied. Those who make decisions for these kinds of projects need to seriously evaluate, with a hard eye, both what good would be gained and the potential cost of bankrupting an entire country. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said: Not arguing that EV's are coming, and sooner rather than later. Just asking how much is being considered here but a little history might be of some benefit. Just taking a look at one aspect of the possible upcoming projects. The Interstate system was declared finished in 1991 at a cost of approximately $114 Billion in 1991 dollars equaling about $500 Billion in 2008 dollars, $629 Billion in 2021 dollars, $678 Billion in 2022 dollars. Initial estimates during the Eisenhower era were $27 Billion in 1954 dollars. Conceptually it was authorized in 1944 and first groundwork was initiated in 1947. Upgrades and additional on/off ramps, bypasses and exits were added over the years as were additional miles (particularly in urban areas), The system was paid for primarily through federal fuel taxes (which has not changed since 1993) and they are currently at 18.3 cents per gallon of gasoline and 24.3 cents per gallon of diesel. While a system that incorporates charging through the highway roadway could make sense and would most likely only require a single lane to be replaced my non binding WAG would be 1/2 of the cost of the entire system, (since you would be replacing 1/2 of the roadway) or about $339 Billion in 2022 dollars, (plus the cost of infrastructure to get electricity to the charging units and the construction of the power source(s) needed fire up the whole thing), and thence to charge the autos. Since I am in a generous mood (and being a long time watcher/planner of how long government projects take to complete) my time frame to completion (another WAG) would be 1/2 the time to build (about 34 years) presuming availability of equipment, crews and materials. No way to calculate the cost in dollars for the untold hours of traffic congestion as the system would necessarily not function at optimum efficiency/traffic flow for years. Costs/time for permits to replace the roadway, dispose of the removed material and eventual repair/maintenance of the new roadway can be staggering and seeing how a simple resurfacing or replacement of concrete can take years to complete on a relatively short stretch of highway today, I would opine that 3 decades to bring the project to fruition is optimistic. And don't forget the roughly $100 Billion spent between the states and the federal government to perform maintenance on the roads (non-charging version) as they exist today, 46,876 miles worth. Some estimates of complete replacement from scratch contemplate costs of nearly $100 million per mile for land acquisition, materials, manpower and equipment. An amount that New Jersey paid in the late 1970's to build I-195 BTW. Since we already own the land currently used for highways that amount could be deducted from the cost but my head is exploding from the estimates I looked at which were all over the board. Even a CNN article from last year estimated $2.6 TRILLION over 10 years to replace the system with a more modern one. Not an impossibility, Americans have tackled and conquered huge projects in the past and could most likely do the same today, but the costs, time investment, citizen frustration balanced against potential benefits to society seem to need to be VERY carefully studied. Those who make decisions for these kinds of projects need to seriously evaluate, with a hard eye, both what good would be gained and the potential cost of bankrupting an entire country. Regards Gateway Kid Those Amazon package delivery drones are looking better all the time, aren't they? LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 7 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: usually (not always) the device will require an app to connect a smart phone to the unit to facilitate payment. that never even crossed my mind--shows you how much of an old-timer I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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