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17 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

In some areas, SASS is all about speed.  That appears to be the evolution of the game.  We were always timed but accuracy was also important.  With the in your face targets, some folks can miss fast enough to still be in the winner's circle.  If you have the fastest car on the track, you can make all kinds of errors and win.  If everyone runs the same setup, only the ones that are perfect for the entire race can win.  In SASS, not everyone has the resources to have the fastest car.

 

IMO and where SASS and NASCAR are similar, the arms race has gotten out of hand with short strokes.  The original intent of the '73 short stroke was to level the playing field with the Marlin.  Then shorter strokes were allowed to the point where the Marlin's need to be short stroked to keep up.  Now even the handguns are being short stroked.  Where does it end and can it be addressed successfully at this point?

That's exactly backwards.  When you have a stage that is set up to be shot fast, let's say for a top gun it's a 14 to 15 second stage, a miss adds 30% to their times.  Now take a stage that is set up with small far targets, irregular spacing and height, lots of movement.  Maybe that stage takes a top shooter 20 seconds to shoot, a miss is only costing that shooter 25% of their time. 

 

The faster the stage, the more mistakes are magnified. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

That's exactly backwards.  When you have a stage that is set up to be shot fast, let's say for a top gun it's a 14 to 15 second stage, a miss adds 30% to their times.  Now take a stage that is set up with small far targets, irregular spacing and height, lots of movement.  Maybe that stage takes a top shooter 20 seconds to shoot, a miss is only costing that shooter 25% of their time. 

 

The faster the stage, the more mistakes are magnified. 

Exactly right.

NO one is missing fast enough on big and close to win - it cannot be done.

I'm a decent shooter - not great, but decent.

I'll shoot my fair share of 18-23 second stages - which a really good shooter might shoot in 14-18 - a great shooter might shoot in 12-15.

 

But let that "great" shooter throw a SINGLE round in the dirt and suddenly - a decent shooter is right there with them.

And the really good shooter just passed them by. 

 

And whereas there are a limited pool of "Great" shooters - there are lots of really good shooters and way too many decent shooters at every match to think that someone/ anyone can simply throw rounds in the dirt and still hoist the trophy at the end.

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11 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Exactly right.

NO one is missing fast enough on big and close to win - it cannot be done.

 

But let that "great" shooter throw a SINGLE round in the dirt and suddenly - a decent shooter is right there with them.

And the really good shooter just passed them by. 

 

And whereas there are a limited pool of "Great" shooters - there are lots of really good shooters and way too many decent shooters at every match to think that someone/ anyone can simply throw rounds in the dirt and still hoist the trophy at the end.

While I can agree with your concept, I have seen folks win with a miss on close/fast stages.  It can and does happen for really great shooters.  You are right that the rest of the pack is now right on their tail but they can still win.

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21 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

While I can agree with your concept, I have seen folks win with a miss on close/fast stages.  It can and does happen for really great shooters.  You are right that the rest of the pack is now right on their tail but they can still win.

 

If the difference in ability between shooters at a local match is great enough, that can happen.  But nearly impossible to happen at a big match with a lot of great and very good shooters.

 

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2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

 

If the difference in ability between shooters at a local match is great enough, that can happen.  But nearly impossible to happen at a big match with a lot of great and very good shooters.

 

It was at a large match that I witnessed it happen.  Nearly, probably but not impossible.

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48 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

It was at a large match that I witnessed it happen.  Nearly, probably but not impossible.

Are you referring to a shooter winning a large match with a miss on one stage or winning a stage with a miss? There's a difference between a shooter winning a large 10 to 12 stage match with a single miss and a shooter who is so fast that he can regularly have a miss on multiple stages but he's so fast he can still win.

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3 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

While I can agree with your concept, I have seen folks win with a miss on close/fast stages.  It can and does happen for really great shooters.  You are right that the rest of the pack is now right on their tail but they can still win.

Not to be overly pedantic - but there is a huge difference between:

The DECENT shooter shot clean and the GREAT shooter had A singular miss and still won.

 

And the original phrase of "miss fast enough to win"  - which implies a completely different set of circumstances.

 

A single miss (or shotgun fumble, holster stab, hesitation, etc.) doesn't disqualify someone from the winners circle and may not lose the match for a given shooter - IF they are fast enough and perfect enough for the remainder of the match.

 

In a 12 stage match - a single miss is still hitting targets at a 99.5% PLUS rate.  

 

So that GREAT shooter needs only be 5 seconds faster combined in all the various factors of the game to beat the next best shooter.  It can happen if you're considering a single miss vs a clean shooter as missing fast enough to win.

 

But the phrase is usually reserved for those matches where one shooter is slow and steady and missing very few - and another is shooting much faster but racking up a number of misses.

Because that is the way the game works - if I can complete the stage 6 seconds faster than the next guy; I'm banking a free miss on every stage.  But I still have to hit more than I miss - still have to navigate the stage quicker and demonstrate my skill set to build that cushion.

At the end of the day; the faster shooter may be able to overcome their misses and penalties with the speed they demonstrate on every stage; but that example "generally" is only going to occur at smaller matches with huge discrepancy between skill levels.

 

And I this was what I was picturing from your post - not a win with a single miss over a slightly slower clean shooter.

 

 

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