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What's The Call?


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Krazy Kurt was a member of the WBAS Committee. An amazing 1911 shooter and instructor. It is too bad that sometimes his tempe rand language got in the way and he had to step away. He was a personal friend and did some great things for this country when he was in the service which still cannot be disclosed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was asked about this by a friend that probably saw it on FB. It was news to me honestly that the MD could take away the MSV. It makes sense if things get really confusing on the stage......as they can.

 

IMHO when the gun fails or ammo jams etc and there is a extended period of focus on the shooter, assisting them and making sure they handle the guns safely in resolving the issue it's not uncommon for me as the TO to lose track of the target sequence as well. Especially if it's not a easy sweep to being with.

 

If I don't know I stay silent.......or literally tell the shooter I'm not sure. If I think I know and am confident enough to say BUT I'm wrong I offer the re-shoot. What I try never to do is guess and tell them when I really don't know. 

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On 1/5/2021 at 2:58 AM, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

My understanding, right or wrong, is that the TO is focusing on gun handling, safety, and watching movement and maybe counting rounds. He's not responsible for watching the shooting sequence. In some cases the storefronts don't allow it. But reading this makes me wary of offering any advice to the shooter. The TO is now responsible for safety, round count, and target sequence. SO shut up and let the shooter own the stage.

 

What happens if the spotters yell out the wrong answer instead of the TO? Or the peanut gallery?

Agree, 100% TO's job is not to watch targets, and as II said with windows, facades etc. you can't sometimes see the targets, that's the spotters job.

This is not dissimilar to a shooter deliberately running into the RO after he's messed up earlier in order to gain a reshoot. That infringement has been sorted, but 

this other scenario with the MD overiding things, could open up a whole can of worms. In 90% of the time I stay quiet and let the shooter get on with it, I will save him from an imminent 

infringement where I can see what's coming and I normally leave guns to fall too, that can create issues also. Would it, wouldn't it etc.

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As a TO, I have been reminded that watching targets is NOT what I am supposed to be doing. I am to be focused on the shooter and safety first. The Spotters are the ones focused on the target hits/misses/sequence. I took that reminder to heart. If the TO gives faulty advice, I have been trained to understand the shooter is responsible for his/her decision as to whether to follow that advice or not. In the case of a TO giving directions, as opposed to advice, the shooter is expected to follow the directions and can be penalized if they do not follow those directions.

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On 1/3/2021 at 6:55 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

The rules don't distinguish between "requested" and "unsolicited" coaching from the Timer Operator.

 

The initial question came up in 2010 regarding a similar "Trifecta" situation.

The allowance for the Match Director to "void" the MSV for a reshoot due to "improper coaching" was confirmed by the ROC at the 2010 Summit.

The verbiage was codified in the SHB in the 2019 version.

 

On 1/3/2021 at 8:37 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

The case in point is an extremely rare situation in which the attention of the parties involved is temporarily focused on safely resolving a firearm malfunction mid-string.

If the T/O is not certain where the shooter is at in the target order after that resolution, s/he should say so if asked; rather than guessing and risking providing improper coaching (i.e. leave it up to the shooter to get back on track). There is no need for a rule specifying that.

If the T/O misdirects the shooter, that is grounds for a reshoot.

In that case, ALL penalties resulting from the improper coaching should be negated...but the reshoot rules specify that SAFETY penalties carry forward on ANY reshoot.

The provision allowing the Match Director to void the MSV penalty in this situation has been in place for some time (as previously noted).

 

On 1/4/2021 at 12:58 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

The rule refers ONLY to an "RO assisted MSV" (as in the cited example).
If a shooter incurs any MSVs during the stage other than in the "RO assisted" situation, those MSVs would carry over on a reshoot.

 

 

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