Patagonia Pete Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 After reading a previous post - "returning pistol to leather" (return to leather or get a P) I need more guidance. Scenario - Shooter shoots first pistol ... thinks one round didn't go off and goes around the world in an attempt to expend the unfired round. When the round does not fire (and not really sure where the unfired round is) the shooter declares "it's broke" ... grounds the pistol on the shooting platform/table in front of them then proceeds to shoot the second pistol and the balance of the stage. Considering - Malfunctioning firearms still containing rounds will not warrant penalties so long as the malfunction is declared and the firearm is made safe. P27 SHB Version 22.3 As long as an unfired round if found there is no "P" but Is laying it on the table considered "made safe"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirrupTrouble Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just to be on the safe side, declare "Broke" or "Malfunction" to your TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBFields Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yes. He "grounded" it after declaration of its broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Spurs Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 ROII Page 8: FIREARM MALFUNCTIONS In the event a shooter declares a malfunction, the shooter will be given the opportunity to make that firearm safe and continue on with the next procedure. The CRO will allow the shooter to make the malfunctioning firearm safe, preferably on a nearby and appropriate horizontal surface (box, table, straw bale, ground, etc.), or if necessary, assist the shooter by allowing them to ―hand off‖ the firearm. Multiple malfunctions by a shooter will be cause for the Timer Operator to request the shooter change firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 You seem to have an underlying concern that a gun laying on a sturdy prop pointed down range is not safe, just because it has malfunctioned and did not fire. Although it has one or more live rounds in it, it's actually pretty safe "just lying there on the table." A hang fire could still occur. Where the round that was struck by hammer waits many seconds and then due to residual energy from the primer initially firing, has the powder ignite. I've seen VERY few hang fires in the last 20 years. If a hang fire does happen, muzzle is pointed safely down range. The gun does not shift angle very much in the very short time the bullet travels down the barrel. So when bullet exits, it will still be pointed safely down range. And our manually-worked actions means that the gun will not fire a second round after it does have a chance to rotate around due to recoil. What else can happen to the gun lying on the table? Nothing UNLESS someone tries to pick it up and do something to it (like clear the problem, carry the gun away to unloading table, etc). So, leave the gun lying there while the shooter finishes the stage. Shooter can come back with the TO, verify that the gun was safely staged after the Malfunction call, and for a revolver, see that another shooter is going to take that malfunctioning gun safely to the unloading table as he carries his long guns and his holstered revolver which worked properly. There is more exposure to injury by handling the gun during the stage than waiting until the shooter completes the stage to transport the gun to the ULT. If there is down-range movement after the gun malfunctions, take that into consideration so the staged gun's muzzle will not come close to sweeping the shooter or TO as they go down range. "Into the berm" is used if there are side berms on the stage. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Thanks for the reply GJ but actually ... no ... I wasn't really concerned about the safety of the grounded revolver. Like a dummy ... I failed to check the "other" handbooks and was really looking for some text on "what qualified" as making safe (which Two Spurs highlighted). I wanted to "see the words" ... horizontal surface ... table etc etc ... In my original post I also said there had to be an "unfired" round in the gun and that was my assumption ... the rule doesn't say that ... it just says "rounds" ... That being the case ... it seems that if someone lost count/got confused or whatever ... as long as they declared and sat down a revolver (even full of empty rounds) that they should not receive a "P" for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Think you meant a safety penalty, not a P. But you are right, if a shooter THINKS he needs to fire one more from a revolver, goes around trying to do so, and then declares Malfunction because he THOUGHT he had a live round still left, he gets the benefit of that gun being declared a malfunctioning gun. And he won't have to holster it. If you ever saw someone who routinely yells malfunction just to be "entitled" to ground all his revolvers - well, handle that as appropriate. Perhaps one SOG would stop that bit of chicanery. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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