Clays V.S. International Clays V.S. Universal Clays

[Lead Ringer]

Clays V.S. International Clays V.S. Universal clays??

I would like to understand the difference between them? Which is the most sought after or preferred powder of the three powders, for light cartridge and shotgun, cowboy action loads? I've only ever used Universal Clays and that was for 9mm loads.

Thanks for your input.

Regards,

Ringer

[/url]">http://

[/url]">http://

[/url]">http://http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/LeadRinger/media/universal%20clays.jpg.html'>

 

 

[Trailrider #896]

The use of the term "Clays" by Hodgdon's for all three powders was, IMHO, an unfortunate choice! The first powder, Clays, is similar, though NOT IDENTICAL to ATK's Bullseye powder, a fast-burning pistol powder. "International" is a shotgun powder, though it probably can be utilized in other applications. "Universal" is similar in burning rate and application to Unique, though their loading data is NOT interchangeable. I note that the labels shown on International and Universal now say, "Clays Technology". From this I infer they are manufactured using similar methods and formulations, varying by the burning rates of the final product. I believe these powders are still made "down under" in Australia. I have used Universal in .44-40 and .44 Mangle-em SASS loads, and find the powder does well when combined with the proper load data (see Hodgdon's data), with 200 - 240 gr. bullets. I load 213.5 gr bullets at about 950 ft/sec from 7-1/2" bbl. Old Model Vaqueros. For lighter loads at lower velocities, Clays works well. I have not used International.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

All three originated as shotgun powders.

 

Clays is fastest burn rate of this set. Made initially for target 12 gauge loads, up to 1 1/8 ounce of shot. That makes it especially good for pistol case cowboy loads, too. Has been used in 45 Colt, 38 Spl and many cowboy loads in between. Don't have to use much, so a little goes a long way. Clays (at least) is now being manufactured for Hodgdon in Canada (used to be Australia). This is the most commonly used cowboy powder of the three, since it can load 38, 45 and 12 gauge all VERY well, and cheaper than most other powders.

 

International Clays is slower. Made initially for shooting International trap and skeet games, where 1 1/4 ounce of shot can be used, and at a top speed. When used in cowboy loads, often soft and dirty. Heavier powder charges needed to get cartridge loads up to the same velocity as Clays can. Often a good powder for 20 gauge loads.

 

Universal Clays is the slowest burn rate of the three. It was made for 20 gauge loads (and smaller gauges) and to burn very close to Unique powder rates. Works well as a replacement for Unique. As such,when loaded so that it burns well, the pressures curves don't fit most cowboy cartridges very well. Wonderful, as you found out, for 9 MM where you want top velocity and high pressure to work the slide. This powder probably gets used more in cartridge than in shotshells anymore.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Krazy Kajun]

I switched from regular Clays to Int. Clays for 12g loads for cowboy shooting when regular Clays was not to be found. I have loads for 7/8 oz and 1 oz of shot and I like this powder. It does leave some unburned powder in the barrel but it works well for the shotgun.

 

I use Univ. Clays for everything from .380 up to .45acp and it works well. I could use other powder but I like having this one powder for all of my misc. pistol loads.

 

I use regular Clays or Clay Dot for .38 CAS loads because I like the soft recoil. I know I could get the same thing with other powders but I happened to have a good supply and will use it.

 

Kajun

[Assassin]

Clays gives me the best bang for the buck. Less powder with the same result. Just saw all three at the local gun show yesterday. For pistol loads I have found Clays works best for me. I prefer a little recoil, therefore I don't use minimums.

[Lead Ringer]

Excellent info boys👍🏼

Kajun mentioned clay dot. Is it just s knock off of clays?

 

Thanks

Ringer

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Excellent info boys

Kajun mentioned clay dot. Is it just s knock off of clays?

 

 

Clay Dot - Alliant's works-like copy of Clays. (Actually slightly better in my book than Clays because it's not cold-sensitive and cheaper, too. But less loading data for it.)

 

They (ATK) fought at least one legal battle to get to use the name Clay Dot, because Hodgdon's said it was too close to their trademarked Clays name.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Krazy Kajun]

Excellent info boys

Kajun mentioned clay dot. Is it just s knock off of clays?

 

Thanks

Ringer

Ringer, Clay Dot seemed to be more available up until a few months ago when regular Clays started reappearing. I stocked up on Clay Dot at that time no knowing if regular Clays was ever going to make it back into distribution. So now I have a pretty good stock of both.

 

Like any load you develop, it needs to be tested. Clay Dot loads about the same as regular Clays but anyone who wants to use it ought to ensure that the load is correct for their use by chrono and any other method that will validate their choice.

 

Kajun

[John Henry Quick]

From the Hodgdon Basic Manual:

 

CLAYS®

Introduced in January 1992, CLAYS has “taken the clay target world by storm.”
It is the most clean burning, consistent 12 ga. 7/8 oz., 1 oz. and 1-1/8 oz. powder available
today. The superb burning characteristics of this powder produce soft, smooth recoil, ultra
clean burning, mild muzzle report, and excellent patterns. These features transfer directly
to handgun applications where target shooting is the main goal. 45 ACP and 38 Special are
only two of the cartridges in which CLAYS provides “tack driving” target accuracy with
flawless functioning.

INTERNATIONAL®

INTERNATIONAL is the second in the “CLAYS” series of powders. Its
burning speed accommodates 12 ga., 2-3/4” light, medium and heavy 1-1/8 oz. loads, with
some very nice 1 oz. listings. Also, it works splendidly in 20 ga., 7/8 oz. target and light
field loads. As with CLAYS, clean burning and flawless functioning is the rule.

 

UNIVERSAL®

UNIVERSAL handles the broadest spectrum of cartridges for both pistol and
shotgun. From the 25 ACP to the 44 Magnum, UNIVERSAL provides outstanding
performance. In shotgun, it produces excellent loads in 28 ga. 3/4 oz., 20 ga. 7/8 oz., 16
ga. 1 oz., and even 12 ga.