The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Take the carrier out-and the bolt...... Put pivot screws into rec'r. How much of the screws thread do you see on the inside of the rec'r? You should NOT see ANY. The left side carrier has to lay to the right side when the bolt is all the way open. You may need to bevel to outside of the left side carrier pivot hole at to allow this to happen. Will this 'piece-of-work' cycle from the mag. Is the failure your're see'n, just in ejection?? Check the cam on the left side carrier and be sure it's not bottomed out against the right side carrier. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 I did as you said and sure enough the right side carrier screw is drilled too deep, one thread sticks out when it's all the way tight which would also explain why it keeps unscrewing it's self as I work the lever. The countersink would fix this. The left side carrier does tip inward when you open the bolt, the probelm is as you start to work the lever closed 1 out of 10 times the left side carrier will tip the other way against the receiver and then the camme on the bolt will actually come down inside of the carrier instead of behind it which basically pins it to the receiver and locks the action up completely like in this picture http://i.imgur.com/ceg36kU.jpg . When the magazine is loaded sometimes the bottom front lip of the carrier isn't able to slide past the primer of the hull in the magazine tube, the edge gets caught against the sharp edge of the carrier. A few times I've had to reach in from the bottom to push the shell in the magazine out of the way. It will cycle loaded length shells, sometimes it will smokestack but most of the time it seems to eject them, it doesn't eject any fired length hulls unless you work the action so hard that the shell in the carrier forces the fired hull out of the extractors grip. Pretty much exactly how the other one is but this one seems to have less clearance if you can believe that. Not only do the hulls not have enough room to clear the lip of the chamber they also don't appear to have enough room to clear the top of the receiver. A few of the hulls that managed to get past the lip of the chamber got stuck between the bolt and the receiver above the chamber. The whole hammer has been machined at an off angle, the hooks for the sear are obviously cut slanted so one side isn't as tall as the other. The spur is the same way too, especially the last rib of the spur which wasn't machined off all the way leaving a razor sharp portion of extra rib which I instantly sliced my finger on, it's since been smoothed out which I hope doesn't mess with my being able to return this junker. , Can they all be like this? The guy I spoke with twice told me that they "sell thousands of these and they almost never get one back" but somehow I've gotten two complete lemons that physically don't have the clearance to function on any standard 2-3/4" ammo. This has really soured me on the 1887, ever since I was a kid it's been a gun on my list of must haves, I finally get one and it's garbage...and then it's replacement is garbage. Now I find myself wishing I'd just bought a cheap pump shotgun or something instead of being $300 something deep into a novelty that won't work without additional smithing. I'm thinking about calling Century tomorrow and telling them I won't accept this one and either want one that has been properly checked out and modified to work the way it's supposed to or I'd like a refund/exchange (not sure they have anything else I'd want though). My only other options are to completely tear this thing apart and get to filing, or pay even more money to someone like Coyote cap to fix it.....or throw it in the safe, accept defeat and grumble about my $300 something bucks every time I see it. Wouldn't feel right selling it to someone the way it is, even if it is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Drive it, like you stole it Lube the heck out of it, and carry on for say 200 rnds. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 BTW-That 'guy', that sez they never get one back, is a LIAR LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Drive it, like you stole it Lube the heck out of it, and carry on for say 200 rnds. LG I can't, 200 rounds would take hours, it jams up literally every time, and once it fails to extract there's only two ways to get the fired hull out, beat the hell out of the lever until it fires out, or sit there with a pocket knife and hold the right extractor out of the way so you can knock the fired hull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I would contact Lassister and see what his charges are. If you get him to fix it the gun will be worth what you will have in it or maybe a little more. Check the prices on the ones that work. just my thoughts. Blue Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 How do I contact Him, is he a member on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I can't, 200 rounds would take hours, it jams up literally every time, and once it fails to extract there's only two ways to get the fired hull out, beat the hell out of the lever until it fires out, or sit there with a pocket knife and hold the right extractor out of the way so you can knock the fired hull out. I refer you back to CC site, with the tune up info for the '87. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yeah I've looked all over that list but don't see my locking up problem. And despite hundreds of mentions of Lassiter online I can't seem to find a single mention of his website or how to contact him. Though honestly I'm not all that interested in sinking more money into this colossal failure of an 1887 clone. I'm definitely calling Century again tomorrow, this is BS, $300+ may not be a top tier gun but that's a ton of money in my current situation, I don't care if it's a gun or anything else I expect a brand new $300+ purchase to work right out of the box. I mean it's not a new tv with a million solder points and resistors and wires, it's not even a finely tuned semi automatic, it's an 1800's era shotgun with like 10 parts and they couldn't even get that right, it should work or they should stop selling it until they have the bugs worked out. I just checked it again and it looks like the camme on the bolt has come loose on it's own again, and it jams against the raised carrier when you try to close the bolt 1 in 5 trys. They sent me a real winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Walt. 92206 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Go to the classified section of the Forum. At the top there is a pinned link with "affiliated merchants". He is on that list. Toms Single Action Shop in Ohio. Tom's Single Action Shop New Lebanon OH Tom Wildenauer 937-687-1039 If you ever need any work in the future, or need to find anybody in your area, I would suggest that you use that list. Almost all of them are SASS shooters and supporters of the hobby. Every on I have dealt with off of that list have been stand up pards. It is an invaluable tool, and are fortunate to have it pinned for us by Allie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 That is a common thing. Use red locktite and stake the screw in place. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 You can email him at lassiter45 at aol dot com. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, had foot surgery. He will make it run right for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Called up Century again and after reading them the list of things wrong with this one they said they could either send me another one or give me a refund. This replacement PW87 just has too many issues and the finish is covered in scrapes and scratches, fixing it up would be like buying a new interior for a dented up car. So I went with the refund, but just to make it fun they even make the refund process obnoxious, in their words "first we credit the distributor for the firearm, then the distributor credits the dealer, then the dealer credits you", and this whole process takes 2 weeks after the get the shotgun back. The lady I spoke with didn't get back to me with a new return number so I suppose that will have to be monday, and then the waiting begins. I was pretty excited about having an 1887 but these cheap ones are just too much hassle, they should sell these as project guns, selling them as fully working new firearms seems like kind of a joke. I'm not sure what I'll get instead, maybe I'll get an Auto 5 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Called up Century again and after reading them the list of things wrong with this one they said they could either send me another one or give me a refund. This replacement PW87 just has too many issues and the finish is covered in scrapes and scratches, fixing it up would be like buying a new interior for a dented up car. So I went with the refund, but just to make it fun they even make the refund process obnoxious, in their words "first we credit the distributor for the firearm, then the distributor credits the dealer, then the dealer credits you", and this whole process takes 2 weeks after the get the shotgun back. The lady I spoke with didn't get back to me with a new return number so I suppose that will have to be monday, and then the waiting begins. I was pretty excited about having an 1887 but these cheap ones are just too much hassle, they should sell these as project guns, selling them as fully working new firearms seems like kind of a joke. I'm not sure what I'll get instead, maybe I'll get an Auto 5 or something. It's great that you're getting a full refund, at least Century is doing the right thing. Don't give up on the 87, once mastered they're fun to shoot and can be run fast. The Norincos work well, I have two and the only time I have ever used my backup is when I took it to a match by mistake. I shoot my 87 in every category in which I compete except Wild Bunch and over many years and many thousands of rounds, have had no problems. Norincos have gone up in price since they're not currently imported but can be found for a reasonable price if you keep you're eyes open. I live about forty minutes from Lassiter and there are a lot of people using 87's around here. Lassiter and quite a few others I know have switched to the more expensive Italian made Chiappa and I will probably have one someday, but I'll still hang on to my Norinco. Best bet is to buy one that Lassiter has worked on, if you buy a stock one, have him work his magic. You can get on his waiting list and he'll call you when he's getting close to your job and his turnaround time is fast. That's far better than having your gun at a gunsmith for months while they work through their backlog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 I haven't entirely given up on the 87's, but I think I'll put it off until I have a little extra spending cash to tinker with it, for now I want something that already works when you buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Ah, I see my luck is working in full force, because I previously returned my first PW87 both the distributor and the dealer refuse to have anything to do with the refund process because that's not the gun that went through their books. Century won't deal directly with me per their policy, their explaination of why they couldn't directly refund me was akin to "we sell them to the distributor at a much lower cost than he sells them for, same with the dealer, so we could be losing money directly refunding you at the price you paid". so that leaves only three options which are: 1. sit here for another 2-3 weeks for another replacement that won't work, hang it on the wall and curse at it every time I walk past because my wallet is missing $350 that could have been a decent shotgun 2. Get a replacement and then if it doesn't show up in horrible shape like the last replacement they sent me I can then sell it privately in bad faith because I know the design doesn't work out of the box. 3. I can get yet another replacement and then I can pay half the original cost of the gun to send it to a gunsmith and wait months and months for my brand new project gun to become an actual functional firearm All 3 seem entirely unacceptable to me. I've been painfully clear about this to Century, I'm waiting on a call back from a higher up. Thus far I have no faith whatsoever in Century arms and will avoid thier products at all costs in the future. This has been a huge mistake and I completely regret buying this thing. The 1887 is my favorite shotgun, this is no 1887....this thing is a curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Look for a -5 or higher serial number IAC '87. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 I probably will but that still doesn't get me my money back. I don't make enough money to flush $350 on a wall hanger, I could have bought a $50 air soft 1887 for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I don't make enough money to flush $350 on a wall hanger, I could have bought a $50 air soft 1887 for that. Never said you did -just try'n to keep you from hav'n more troubles. Good luck, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 mini update, talked with the dealer again and he's now willing to go through with the refund but he will only refund what is refunded to him which would be $289, I would have to eat the difference. The distributor still wants nothing to do with it because the refund is for a gun they didn't sell. Century said they might be able to send a form to the distributor showing they exhanged for the one I have now but there's no telling yet if that would work or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hope that all who have read this, now knows to NEVER have any dealings with Century Arms. I know that I never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Sierra Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I have been following this thread closely LG. I was very interested in buying one these 87s. I know now that would have been a big mistake. Sorry TDodge7 about having to go through this. HS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm not taking Century Arms side. And I felt they have failed to make you 100% happy. But.... They did respond and did send a replacement gun. It's too bad the replacement wasn't any better than the busted one. Sounds like they are continuing to make some attempt to reconcile the issue. It would seem reasonable to me they would just refund the full amount and eat the loss. It would be the most direct and cost effective way to resolve the issue. As for the PW87, apparently some do work. Maybe even most. Or everyone has accepted them faults and all. I'm going to keep shooting mine and work out the bugs or find a load that will run. It seems to run better the more I shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Some PW87's may work right out of the box but I have no confidence that Century would send me one those. Like I said, when I sent the first one in it had with it a 2 page letter, hand drawn diagrams and photos, Coyote caps entire write up, and an assortment of hulls, can't get much more thorough than that. It's obvious that they grabbed whichever pw87 they had set aside in the warranty fufilment section of their shop and sent it out to me without going over it.....they may have thrown a shell or two through it but it's clear all of my information I sent them went into the trash. I even told them I'd take a different type of firearm in exchange and they said it's against their policy. They're not completely screwing me, but they're not going out of their way to help me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If Century is not will'n to refund your full purchase price, and the dealer won't help you either. Then I would never do business with either again. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Update: This morning I got a call from the dealer who said that he had just gotten off the phone with the distributor, the distributor has seemingly decided to leave Century completely out of this and will be sending a Fed Ex driver to my house tomorrow to pick up the shotgun. As soon as they receive it they will issue a credit to the dealer who will then credit me. I called Century to make sure that all of this was ok, they hadn't heard anything about it but said that that would be fine and to go ahead and do it. So this is either resolving it's self for things are about to get even more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 "Credit" ain't CASH...... You want 100% refund, in CASH. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Well I didn't buy it at the dealer in person, I had it shipped to my local ffl so technically it would be a credit back to my debit card, it's not going to be for the full amount though, just the $289 the dealer paid, it sucks and I won't be dealing with either them or Century ever again, I'm just going to consider it a lesson learned and be glad I got most of my money back so I could buy something that works. And it seems since they're cutting Century out of the deal like they'll be putting the refund through asap instead of the 2 weeks Century would have made it take. Now I guess I need to pick out what I'm going to get instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Try to contact the HMFIC at Century. So far it sounds like a scam they are run'n. I would even get the BBB involved! Then again-That's just me. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just spotted a beautiful Remington model 11 at the local pawn shop, it looks to have about a 24" barrel including the cutts compensator, and I think I could get out of there with it for a little under $300 if I really try. I'm going to do some reading up on them so I can check it out really well first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 You do know, the 11 ain't 'legal' for SASS. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 I know, but it's second to the 1887 on my list of shotguns I've always wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have to apologize, my shotgun was not in fact a Century import but an IAC 87. Century used a variety of acronyms to get around the fact that most of what they put out was crap. Back during the bad old days of the AWB they sold modified CETME rifles, which included a pinned noise enhancer. Some of these were really poorly put together firearms. Some of the pinned muzzle brakes were drilled through to the rifling and had part of the pin inside the bore. And they ground the back of bolt heads to make spec so it seemed that the bolt had proper head space when checked with a feeler gauge. They seemed to have gotten their act together a few years ago with the CETMEs but it appears they have not done so with these shotguns. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 And off it goes to the distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDodge7 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 The Distributor just got it back, lets see how long the refund takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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