CAS & Trap

[Harvey Mushman]

Like many here, I shoot both CAS and Trap, and they do NOT complement each other, at least for me, lately.

 

In CAS/SASS, it is all about the front sight, even a little on the shotgun (although a lot less so than the rifle and pistol). My best and most accurate stages are when I concentrate (focus) on the front sight and the target is background. It is called aiming.

 

If you've shot trap, you know that this will KILL YOU. In trap, it is all about the target, you concentrate (focus) on the target and POINT the shotgun. When I shoot well, I never notice the front bead, but I am obviously aware of where the barrel was in relation to the target when I pulled.

 

Thursday nite I shot trap league with decent scores for me. Then today (Saturday) I shot a 6 stage monthly SASS match and started the first shots pointing (with some misses - too fast). Was able to transition to the front sight aiming and had some good stages - this part of the two sports seems to come easier when switching between them.

 

Then went right over to the trap club for an important team match in the afternoon (singles plus handicap, silver coins on the line for individual and team winners). No chance for practice since I was near the end of the period. In spite of telling myself to "POINT", my eyes jumped back to the bead on the first 5 targets and I missed two of them on that first station - got it together and was OK after that. Of course I ended up losing Hi Gun for my yardage by 1 bird.

 

So, THE Question:

 

For those Pards who shoot a lot of both, are there any mental or physical tricks you use to ensure a quick and reliable mental switch, especially on the same day?!?!

 

Thanks,

Harvey

[Jacknife]

After ya shoot em both for a while, you won't have any problem. Kinda like switching from a pull trigger to a release trigger. It's all in your head.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Interesting question. I shoot a lot of Trap. Usually twice a week during league season, usually once a week the rest of the year.

 

Can't say as I have ever shot both Trap and CAS the same day, except on the rare occasion when we had Cowboy Trap at a big match.

 

I know everybody makes a big deal about not seeing the bead in Trap, and just pointing the gun, but to tell you the truth, I do see it most of the time. When I am setting up to call for the bird I have a low hold, right on the edge of the trap house. Before I call for the bird I make sure I can see the proper amount of rib and this includes seeing the bead at the end of the muzzle. I place this sight picture (yes, it is a sight picture) right where I want it on the trap house. Then I call for the bird.

 

Now I cannot report that I always see the bead because I am concentrating on the target. With a straightaway shot I may or may not see the bead. I am shooting on old Winchester Model 12 with a fixed full choke, not a modern fancy Trap gun. So with a straightaway shot I usually have to cover the bird with the muzzle. I try to shoot straightaways quickly, I just raise the barrel where I need to and fire. Most of the time I am covering the target so, I am probably seeing the bead. I know that sometimes I am not sure I broke the target until after I have lowered the gun.

 

For hard rights and lefts I absolutely see the bead. I see the target and I also see the bead as I catch up to the target, sweep through it, and fire.

 

So much for not seeing the front sight, I see it most of the time. I ain't a Double A shooter, but I do OK this way, this year my average was a shade over 22.

 

But I do know one of the most important things in Trap is to not overthink the shot. If you are worrying about whether or not you are seeing the bead, that could be why you missed, not the fact of whether or not you saw the bead. I think of Trap as zen shooting. Before I call for the bird I try to empty my mind of everything. Of course, I try not to anticipate where the bird may go. But I also try to empty my mind of everything else too. What's going on at work, what the wife is doing, what the guy next to me is doing, what we are going to have for dinner, all that stuff. That is really the hard part for me, clearing my mind of absolutely everything so I can just see the target and shoot it. A lot easier than it sounds. If an outside thought sneaks in during the second or two before I call for the target, that may cause me to miss, because it distracts me when the target emerges.

 

If you are concerned about the transition between CAS and Trap, you may be overthinking your shots in Trap. Just relax and shoot the target.

[Jacknife]

Harvey, it may help ya to remember to AIM your revolvers and rifle, and to POINT your shotgun. If it has two sights on it, ya are to aim it. One sight (bead) is meant to be pointed. Trap is a mind game where ya stay focused for an extended period. Our game here is to stay focused for a few seconds, then back to playing cowboy till it's your turn again.

[Harvey Mushman]

Thanks DJ and Jacknife.

 

Driftwood,

 

I agree 100% on the mental aspect of the trap game. You may be right about my thoughts about it getting in my way. Seems to happen in SASS shooting, too!

 

I have found that while getting rid of all the extraneous thoughts and distractions is important in Trap, equally important is a single focused thought on the station, as well (helps the other thoughts go away) - then relax and call for the target. I've read this many places and heard Dan Bonnillas, Leo Harrison and others talk about it. My thought is: "See the Bird - kill it". That helps me wait to see the bird and then focus on it, and it only.

 

I'm a decent shot and I shot trap again Sunday after the Saturday episode above - had a 24 in singles, and a 23 in Handi (24 yds). All three misses were near straightaways where I tend to think "easy", as I see its trajectory. My problem is not seeing the bead, it is having my binocular focus shift from the target to the front site with the bird in flight.

 

When I shoot SASS, I make my eyes focus on the front site, and make sure it is in the center of the target. With Trap, it is the other way around. Because I have shot rifle and pistol all my life (looking at the sights), the "pointing" thing is not as ingrained. I have been shooting trap since January (after a 30 year layoff), and the problem is lessening. The same day, back-to-back SASS first, then trap, seems to give me the most mental challenge.

 

Jacknife,

I suspect you are right. As I shoot more of both, my mind should begin to adjust to each, and I'll stop even being aware of it (but I hope not to have to go to release trigger... ).

 

Thanks,

Harvey

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Harvey, it may help ya to remember to AIM your revolvers and rifle, and to POINT your shotgun. If it has two sights on it, ya are to aim it. One sight (bead) is meant to be pointed. Trap is a mind game where ya stay focused for an extended period. Our game here is to stay focused for a few seconds, then back to playing cowboy till it's your turn again.

 

 

Last time I checked - My Trap gun has two sights on it.

 

Front bead and rear bead. And I was taught to shoot trap, making an 8 out of those two beads before I fired.

 

But guess thats just me.

[Jacknife]

Last time I checked - My Trap gun has two sights on it.

 

Front bead and rear bead. And I was taught to shoot trap, making an 8 out of those two beads before I fired.

 

But guess thats just me.

 

It seems that you corrected yourself there. They are beads, not sights. Figure 8 has no meaning other than to make sure the gun is mounted properly. If ya are looking at em later, ya gonna hear "LOST." Don't ask me how I know.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Correct me if I am wrong but is your trap [DTL ] shooting all single barrel competition ?

Further what barrel lengths are commonly used ?

I know those 2 questions have nothing to do with your question...I'm just curious'!

 

I was a DTL /Olmpic trap / sporting shooter for 30 years before I took up Cowboy 5 years ago.

Consistency was my biggest problem, sometimes the targets were like dinner plates..other times it was 's**t I didn't see that !

Trap is like CAS in preparation & getting the mind right, for myself 25 trap targets is 25 x 1 target events.

Everyone is different with the mounting of the gun, but as long as the gun fits the shooter then as has been previously said the sights forming a figure 8 comes into play but again that's not for everyone, something I then use is to say to myself to put a positive in the brain is 'smoke it'...head down ,eyes up & out the front ..call pull & bang [or in our case in Australia it's bang,bang if you miss with the first]

I find the big thing in CAS is shooters think the shotgun is a givin, you still have to put the barrel in the right place or as we see often it's a re-engagement.

That there is what I think is the main difference..coming up to or swinging thru the target compared to on the target in CAS, where with the pistols hold tight, front sight definitely helps.

I am a 2 eyed trap shooter & 2 eyes shotgun in CAS...but cannot open the 2 for pistol & yet I know it would give good results, sometimes I shoot the rifle with 2 eyes open.

When I do shoot trap which is not very often these days I generally have decent scores, I think the ability to seperate the styles & bring the brain to 'attention is the important part.

 

Regards...'Painted Mohawk

[Barkeep Casey]

Shoot Outlaw, Problem Solved!!!

[Tom Bullweed]

Try CAS and bullseye pistol matches for a real oil-n-water situation. I quit the bullseye for now.

[Harvey Mushman]

Correct me if I am wrong but is your trap [DTL ] shooting all single barrel competition ?

Further what barrel lengths are commonly used ?

I know those 2 questions have nothing to do with your question...I'm just curious'!

 

I was a DTL /Olmpic trap / sporting shooter for 30 years before I took up Cowboy 5 years ago.

Consistency was my biggest problem, sometimes the targets were like dinner plates..other times it was 's**t I didn't see that !

Trap is like CAS in preparation & getting the mind right, for myself 25 trap targets is 25 x 1 target events.

Everyone is different with the mounting of the gun, but as long as the gun fits the shooter then as has been previously said the sights forming a figure 8 comes into play but again that's not for everyone, something I then use is to say to myself to put a positive in the brain is 'smoke it'...head down ,eyes up & out the front ..call pull & bang [or in our case in Australia it's bang,bang if you miss with the first]

I find the big thing in CAS is shooters think the shotgun is a givin, you still have to put the barrel in the right place or as we see often it's a re-engagement.

That there is what I think is the main difference..coming up to or swinging thru the target compared to on the target in CAS, where with the pistols hold tight, front sight definitely helps.

I am a 2 eyed trap shooter & 2 eyes shotgun in CAS...but cannot open the 2 for pistol & yet I know it would give good results, sometimes I shoot the rifle with 2 eyes open.

When I do shoot trap which is not very often these days I generally have decent scores, I think the ability to seperate the styles & bring the brain to 'attention is the important part.

 

Regards...'Painted Mohawk

 

 

Mohawk,

I have never seen DTL in the US (but I suspect it does exist. Trap here is one shot only for Singles (16yd) or Handicap ( 18-27 yds depending on your expertise). We also shoot "Doubles, but that is two birds set simulaneously on the same left-right angles every time, only two shots allowed.

 

My right eye is dominant, but not very much, at all. I tried shooting trap with both eyes and failed to hit (either of) the birds often enough. So, I shoot Trap and CAS with my left eye closed. I have occasionally shot trap with a dot on my left eyepiece and it seems to work OK.

 

You are spot on in the ability to concentrate and separate the disciplines. I commonly race different motorcycles on the same day with shift on both left and right, only. I got used to the "feel" of the bike to signal to my mind which one I was on. But is still need the warmup/sighting lap to ingrain the message - therefore, I guess I would really need a few practice rounds of trap after shoooting CAS on the same day. Unfortunately, if I do shoot both the same day, practice is done long before I get to the trap field.

 

 

Shoot Outlaw, Problem Solved!!!

 

BC,

 

I've been thinking about that and likely will try it, but I want to get more proficient with sighted shooting before I tackle this. I suspect Outlaw requires A LOT OF PRACTICE to get reasonably accurate, let alone, fast.

 

Thanks,

Harvet