ruger old army

[Royal Flush Chuck]

I would like to shoot my 2 Ruger Old Armys in Frontersman. I have changed the rear sights to a non adjustable insert which is screwed and pinned down. I gather I can shoot them in Frontersman. Has anyone used a similiar type of legal alteration? I do not plan on shooting this catagory often and do not need to spend $ on different guns.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I would like to shoot my 2 Ruger Old Armys in Frontersman. I have changed the rear sights to a non adjustable insert which is screwed and pinned down. I gather I can shoot them in Frontersman. Has anyone used a similiar type of legal alteration? I do not plan on shooting this catagory often and do not need to spend $ on different guns.

 

The ONLY approved procedure for converting an adjustable-sighted Ruger Old Army (or Blackhawk) to a FIXED-sight revolver for use in categories that require fixed sights is specified in the "Firearms Covenants" in the Shooters Handbook:

 

FRAMES AND RECEIVERS

...

• Ruger Blackhawk and Ruger Old Army adjustable sight frames may be modified by removing the rear sight assembly, welding up the sight cutout, recontouring the frame top strap, and cutting a new sight notch to replicate Colt SAA or Vaquero frames.

The reconfigured frame must be mated with a conventional Ruger Vaquero type barrel, hammer, and the original grip frame assembly in order to be allowed as a fixed sight model revolver.

SHB p.7

 

Reference also the REVOLVER - FIXED SIGHT section (p.6) re: blade vs ramped FRONT sight.

[Royal Flush Chuck]

if the sights I made are welded down would that meet the requirement? Many of the Ruger Vaquaros are altered by machining out the sight groove.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

if the sights I made are welded down would that meet the requirement? Many of the Ruger Vaquaros are altered by machining out the sight groove.

 

Any modification other than that listed in the SHB would be subject to approval by the ROC.

Good pix would be most helpful in making a determination.

You can email them directly to me (sent PM re: email address)

The ramp front sight will also need to be changed out.

 

? re: the Vaquero statement?

[Buck Bisley]

Please post a pic on this thread or the forum.

Would love to see what you made.

Adjustable to fixed combat sights exist for S&W revolvers but not Rugers

I would love to see someone come out with them.

[Royal Flush Chuck]

I do not know how to post a pic. However on the Ruger Old Army Cap & Ball, the sight is machined to fit the existing grove and is held down secure witn the existing screw. The sight extends out the back side of the frame. Curently lock tight down, but can be welded in place. It came out great and I blued them. I am hoping the RO will qualify them. If not I spent 4 hours measuring and milling to no avail. I really dont understand why they would not be OK, because yhey are non adjustablr, but rules are rules.

[Yusta B.]

Take some digital pics, or have someone else take them & email to PWB. See post #4

[Brooklyn Slim]

My grandson got me into shooting last year. Before that I had never fired a handgun. Then I saw a CAS event and got into CAS. So now I'm getting some guns.

 

I was interested in the Ruger Old Army in stainless steel, and thought they would be neat for black powder events, based on Ruger reputation and made in USA.

 

So if I get two ROAs used, now I need to have a smith to redo the whole site system? Can it be done with stainless steel? Anyone know who can do this, and how much it would cost? Why can't the rear site just be removed, and sight down the barrel and point it instead of aiming?

 

From reading the Curtrich articles, one would think the ROA is a really great gun to use in CAS. But not if it will cost more than the gun is worth to make it legal.

 

Would appreciate any insight experienced shooters could provide.

[Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L]

My grandson got me into shooting last year. Before that I had never fired a handgun. Then I saw a CAS event and got into CAS. So now I'm getting some guns.

 

I was interested in the Ruger Old Army in stainless steel, and thought they would be neat for black powder events, based on Ruger reputation and made in USA.

 

So if I get two ROAs used, now I need to have a smith to redo the whole site system? Can it be done with stainless steel? Anyone know who can do this, and how much it would cost? Why can't the rear site just be removed, and sight down the barrel and point it instead of aiming?

 

From reading the Curtrich articles, one would think the ROA is a really great gun to use in CAS. But not if it will cost more than the gun is worth to make it legal.

 

Would appreciate any insight experienced shooters could provide.

The original Ruger Old Armies had 7-1/2" barrels and adjustable rear sight with a ramp front sight similar to a Blackhawk. That's the version the question is about. In stock form they are not legal for any black powder category and need the modifications PWB quoted. They also made, for SASS usage, models with Vaquero-like fixed sights and front sight. Those guns are SASS-Frontiersman legal out of the box. If you are buying guns, look for these. They came in 4 versions, 7-1/2" blue, 7-1/2" stainless, 5-1/2" blue, 5-1/2" stainless. I see them occasionally, usually in the $500-600 range, but I have seen a pair go for less than $1,000.

 

Frontiersman Legal Stainless 7-1/2" Ruger Old Army

 

Frontiersman legal 5-1/2" Stainless Ruger Old Armies

[Brooklyn Slim]

The original Ruger Old Armies had 7-1/2" barrels and adjustable rear sight with a ramp front sight similar to a Blackhawk. That's the version the question is about. In stock form they are not legal for any black powder category and need the modifications PWB quoted. They also made, for SASS usage, models with Vaquero-like fixed sights and front sight. Those guns are SASS-Frontiersman legal out of the box. If you are buying guns, look for these. They came in 4 versions, 7-1/2" blue, 7-1/2" stainless, 5-1/2" blue, 5-1/2" stainless. I see them occasionally, usually in the $500-600 range, but I have seen a pair go for less than $1,000.

 

Frontiersman Legal Stainless 7-1/2" Ruger Old Army

 

Frontiersman legal 5-1/2" Stainless Ruger Old Armies

 

Many thanks for your quick reply. Will be more knowledgable when I look at the gun auction.

[Wyandot Jim]

These started out as adj. sight old model 357s. This is what would have to be done to the adj. sight ROAs. Cost to convert with custom made Super hammers and barrels cut to 45/8" around $1200 for the pair

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk67/wyandotjim/1323800491.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk67/wyandotjim/1323800489.jpg

 

These are what I shoot now. They started out as Blue fix sight 7 1/2" ROAs

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk67/wyandotjim/1330559475.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk67/wyandotjim/1330559477.jpg

[Brooklyn Slim]

As I suspected, $1200 to modify a pair is more than what I see the current going price for an adjustable pair.

 

You have a nice set with the conversion kits.

 

Don't think that I'll be shooting in the ball and cap categories anytime soo.

 

Many thanks for the reply.

 

Brooklyn Slim

[Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L]

As I suspected, $1200 to modify a pair is more than what I see the current going price for an adjustable pair.

 

You have a nice set with the conversion kits.

 

Don't think that I'll be shooting in the ball and cap categories anytime soo.

 

Many thanks for the reply.

 

Brooklyn Slim

That's too bad. Frontiersman is a lot of fun. It's challenging, but it's also rewarding. A pair of fixed sight ROAs at $1000 cost less than a pair of new Vaqueros, which are $1200-1300/pair. On the other hand, starting with cartridge pistols shooting with two hands has a much lower learning curve than shooting black with percussion pistols. I shot smokeless for a year or two, then Frontier Cartridge, then Frontiersman, and normally that's what I recommend for beginners. I've known several people who started with percussion pistols but gave up the sport altogether because they couldn't master them.

[Monco]

Isn't it legal to use adj. sight Ruger Old Army revolvers in all age based categories using BP & Subs as long as it is not shot Gunfighter style?

 

Can't this also be done using a cartridge conversion cylinders in the Ruger Old Army revolvers?

[Appalachian Alan]

Isn't it legal to use adj. sight Ruger Old Army revolvers in all age based categories using BP & Subs as long as it is not shot Gunfighter style?

 

Can't this also be done using a cartridge conversion cylinders in the Ruger Old Army revolvers?

 

 

YES

[Brooklyn Slim]

That's too bad. Frontiersman is a lot of fun. It's challenging, but it's also rewarding. A pair of fixed sight ROAs at $1000 cost less than a pair of new Vaqueros, which are $1200-1300/pair. On the other hand, starting with cartridge pistols shooting with two hands has a much lower learning curve than shooting black with percussion pistols. I shot smokeless for a year or two, then Frontier Cartridge, then Frontiersman, and normally that's what I recommend for beginners. I've known several people who started with percussion pistols but gave up the sport altogether because they couldn't master them.

Capt.

 

Appreciate yur advice.

 

If I could find a pair of SASS legal ROAs in Stainless for $1K, I would buy them.

 

I bought a pair of Rugers from Long Hunter a few months ago, and my wife and I love them. Will do our first shoot at our local club next month.

 

I need to read the SASS Handbook again. I'll be 70 in January, and my eyes won't focus on the rear sight anyway. There must be an Old Fart category where I'm not competiting with the more serious shooters.

[Monco]

In my very limited experience, there are more than plenty smokin' fast "old farts" shootin' in many categories.....hope to be one myself one day. (45 years old now and middle of the pack today)

 

Sights....LOL! I try to focus on front sight and can't say I remember having time to see much of any sight after the first shot if even that. Practice & muscle memory will relieve you of that sighting dooty for the most part if runnin' fast.

 

My point is that it looks like it is quite possible to shoot in an identical fashion as Frontiersman using adj. sight ROA's in an age based category then gauge your performance (if that really matters to ya) against those in the Frontiersman category or even overall results. All we come away with in this game is a possible trophy/award and the many other great experiences associated with CAS.

 

I say this while I make much effort to become competitive but in the end, I know what is the most important.... collecting, modifying, and shooting some really cool guns with like minded folks.....ROA's are REALLY cool guns! I know this is a popular notion or there would be FAR fewer folks playin' this game.

 

Welcome!! Yer gonna love it!

[Six-Shot]

The original Ruger Old Armies had 7-1/2" barrels and adjustable rear sight with a ramp front sight similar to a Blackhawk. That's the version the question is about. In stock form they are not legal for any black powder category and need the modifications PWB quoted. They also made, for SASS usage, models with Vaquero-like fixed sights and front sight. Those guns are SASS-Frontiersman legal out of the box. If you are buying guns, look for these. They came in 4 versions, 7-1/2" blue, 7-1/2" stainless, 5-1/2" blue, 5-1/2" stainless. I see them occasionally, usually in the $500-600 range, but I have seen a pair go for less than $1,000.

 

Frontiersman Legal Stainless 7-1/2" Ruger Old Army

 

Frontiersman legal 5-1/2" Stainless Ruger Old Armies

 

Just this past week on GunBroker I saw a pair of blued ROA's with 5 1/2" barrels and fixed sights sold for $1900 for the pair. I personally own a pair of 7 1/2" stainless ROA's with fixed sights. They are NOT for sale because they are "priceless".

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

The original Ruger Old Armies had 7-1/2" barrels and adjustable rear sight with a ramp front sight similar to a Blackhawk. That's the version the question is about. In stock form they are not legal for any black powder category and need the modifications PWB quoted. They also made, for SASS usage, models with Vaquero-like fixed sights and front sight. Those guns are SASS-Frontiersman legal out of the box. If you are buying guns, look for these. They came in 4 versions, 7-1/2" blue, 7-1/2" stainless, 5-1/2" blue, 5-1/2" stainless. I see them occasionally, usually in the $500-600 range, but I have seen a pair go for less than $1,000.

 

Frontiersman Legal Stainless 7-1/2" Ruger Old Army

 

Frontiersman legal 5-1/2" Stainless Ruger Old Armies

 

 

And there ya go Royal Flush Chuck...

 

Captain Baylor was 'round back when them pistolas was only... Ruger Young Army's.

 

hehehe

 

ts

 

 

 

p.s. Hey Capt.... glad to see yore still here... shakin' them trees on the Wire.

[Wyandot Jim]

Just this past week on GunBroker I saw a pair of blued ROA's with 5 1/2" barrels and fixed sights sold for $1900 for the pair. I personally own a pair of 7 1/2" stainless ROA's with fixed sights. They are NOT for sale because they are "priceless".

 

 

Yep wish I would have bought a barrel full of them when ya could.

Seen the ss 5 1/2" ones sell for $8-900 each. Got a whole lot less than that in mine

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

Yep wish I would have bought a barrel full of them when ya could.

Seen the ss 5 1/2" ones sell for $8-900 each. Got a whole lot less than that in mine

 

 

Yore kiddin', right? $8-900 each? ssshhhheeessshhhh...

 

Who woulda thought it?

 

ts

[Brooklyn Slim]

Does anyone have an opinion (now that's a stupid question, I know) about the Pietta Model 1858 New Army Stainless Steel .44 Caliber Revolver sold by Cabalas?

 

Appreciate any suggestion of an alternate for the ROA stainless.

[Buck Bisley]

Take some digital pics, or have someone else take them & email to PWB. See post #4

 

Here are his pictures... I like the idea he has but I would contour the rear to look more like the lines of a fixed sighted gun myself

 

Nice work!

ROA Fixed Sight

ROA Fixed Sight 2

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Here are his pictures... I like the idea he has but I would contour the rear to look more like the lines of a fixed sighted gun myself

That's part of what needs to be done to complete the "fixed sight" modification.

...& don't forget about replacing the original ramp FRONT sight.

 

...

ROA Fixed Sight

ROA Fixed Sight 2

 

Thanks for posting the pix.

Sorry, but that's NOT LEGAL "as is".

[J-BAR #18287]

Does anyone have an opinion (now that's a stupid question, I know) about the Pietta Model 1858 New Army Stainless Steel .44 Caliber Revolver sold by Cabalas?

 

Appreciate any suggestion of an alternate for the ROA stainless.

 

 

The 1858 is a fine gun. The grip does not feel comfortable in my hand, so I prefer the Colt open top reproductions, the 1851 Navy (.36) and the 1860 Army (.44). If possible, fondle one of each and see if one type feels better to you than another. Years ago Uberti guns were a tad better finished than Piettas, but that is no longer the case. I recently purchased a pair of Pietta 1860s on sale from Cabela's and I am pleased with them.

 

Any of the reproductions, the 1858, 1851, 1860, etc. normally require some tuning to make them reliable for competition. They will go bang out of the box, but cap fragment jams and broken flat springs are more likely to occur with these than the Ruger Old Army. One of the reasons for the Ruger's popularity is that it requires less tuning/gunsmithing to be ready for serious (if we have that in CAS!!) competition. Replacing factory nipples with Treso, Ampco, or Slix nipples is recommended, as well checking arbor fit and cylinder bolt fit. Larsen E. Pettifogger has provided online instructions for tuning these guns and making them reliable for competition.

 

You can have a lot of fun shooting with your fellow Frontiersman with any of these models, and have less invested than using Ruger Old Armies. If your goal is to place first or second at Winter Range or End of Trail in Frontiersman category, the reliability of the Ruger will help you reach your goal.

 

You pays your money and you takes your chance....

[Brooklyn Slim]

The 1858 is a fine gun. The grip does not feel comfortable in my hand, so I prefer the Colt open top reproductions, the 1851 Navy (.36) and the 1860 Army (.44). If possible, fondle one of each and see if one type feels better to you than another. Years ago Uberti guns were a tad better finished than Piettas, but that is no longer the case. I recently purchased a pair of Pietta 1860s on sale from Cabela's and I am pleased with them.

 

Any of the reproductions, the 1858, 1851, 1860, etc. normally require some tuning to make them reliable for competition. They will go bang out of the box, but cap fragment jams and broken flat springs are more likely to occur with these than the Ruger Old Army. One of the reasons for the Ruger's popularity is that it requires less tuning/gunsmithing to be ready for serious (if we have that in CAS!!) competition. Replacing factory nipples with Treso, Ampco, or Slix nipples is recommended, as well checking arbor fit and cylinder bolt fit. Larsen E. Pettifogger has provided online instructions for tuning these guns and making them reliable for competition.

 

You can have a lot of fun shooting with your fellow Frontiersman with any of these models, and have less invested than using Ruger Old Armies. If your goal is to place first or second at Winter Range or End of Trail in Frontiersman category, the reliability of the Ruger will help you reach your goal.

 

You pays your money and you takes your chance....

Thanks for your advice.

 

Any type of championship is not even on my long list, but avoiding the frustration of a poorly made or unreliable firearm is at the top of my short list. My only objective is a clean stage. I'll visit Cabelas and try the grip of a 1858.

[Blue Mesa, SASS #63240]

Thanks for your advice.

 

Any type of championship is not even on my long list, but avoiding the frustration of a poorly made or unreliable firearm is at the top of my short list. My only objective is a clean stage. I'll visit Cabelas and try the grip of a 1858.

 

Seems with the difficulty of finding ROAs with fixed sights, SASS should allow the adjustable ones. More shooters helps keep the category alive and active!

[J-BAR #18287]

Yeah, didn't somebody say that adjustable sights didn't make any difference?? :blink:

 

I mostly agree with NOZ about not messing with Frontiersman, but maybe a new category could be created to accomodate adjustable sighted ROAs as well as mollify those who do not like including fixed sighted ROAs in the present Frontiersman category...

 

Frontiersman for the more authentic period correct cap and ball guns, and Ruger Frontiersman for ROAs, either fixed or adjustable sights.

 

Having to weld up frames to make a good gun legal for one category is just crap.

[Wyandot Jim]

Frontiersman for the more authentic period correct cap and ball guns, and Ruger Frontiersman for ROAs, either fixed or adjustable sights.

 

 

 

 

Yea who cares???? Don't need it.

How many of us that shoot Frontiersman would really care if someone was shooting adj. sight ROAs. The AS must not make any difference since they did away with Modern.

[Six-Shot]

 

Having to weld up frames to make a good gun legal for one category is just crap.

 

ditto

[Six-Shot]

When I'm at the loadin' table with my Blackhawks (same sights as ROA's) all loaded up waitin' my turn to shoot and the RO/TO calls me up to the line and asks me "is the shooter ready?" I've never said "wait a minute while I make a final adjustment to my rear sights" and I've never adjusted them while "on the clock". So where's the advantage?

[Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L]

Frontiersman, unfortunately, isn't big enough to break into 2 categories. I attend all too many events where having enough entrants to justify having one category is a problem. I would suggest the rules committee consider allowing adjustable sight ROAs in Frontiersman.

[Buck Bisley]

Given the popularity and availability of the adj sight ROAs I too feel that they should be allowed.

I was fortunate to be able to find another pair of FS ROAs after having to part with others earlier this year.

When searching for a ROA you can't swing a dead cat without hitting the adj sighted ones

The FS ones are getting harder to find and commanding a higher price

[J-BAR #18287]

Frontiersman, unfortunately, isn't big enough to break into 2 categories. I attend all too many events where having enough entrants to justify having one category is a problem. I would suggest the rules committee consider allowing adjustable sight ROAs in Frontiersman.

 

 

I agree. I don't believe the big heavy 7 1/2" adjustable sighted ROA can be shot faster than the guns that are already allowed in Frontiersman category. I doubt that allowing the adustable sighted ROAs in Frontiersman would change the category rankings one bit.

 

And I am going to run a test to see if I am right. Fortunately I can run a range test with my own guns under the same conditions, and the only variable will be the guns themselves. I will test a pair of adjustable sighted ROAS against a pair of 5.5 inch fixed sighted ROAs and a pair of Uberti 1851 Navy 36s and a pair of Pietta 1860 Army 44s. I will shoot the same stage setup with each pair several times, drawing and transitioning just like in a match, and get a statistical analysis on the results. It may take me a while to get this done, but I will let you all know the results. At least it will be a good excuse to get my guns dirty!! :lol:

 

I do not know who sat on the commitee when it was decided to require mutilation of the adjustable sighted ROA in order to make it legal for Frontiersman category, but I cannot imagine that any of those folks actually shot in the category. I cannot imagine that anyone who enjoys shooting cap and ball guns would encourage the mutilation of any of these guns.

[Rowdy Yates, SASS #141]

This is my personal opinion only and counts for nothing else.

 

I do not favor allowing adjustable sights into the Frontiersman or any other Black Powder Category whether they be on a Ruger, Colt, Remington or whatever you choose to shoot.

 

Frontiersman was started before the fixed sighted ROAs came along and did just fine without them. Actually I’m pretty sure the adjustable sighted models were outlawed before there even were fixed sighted available.

Whether or not the sights offer an advantage has nothing to do with how I see this issue.

 

I’ve done just fine in both Frontiersman and Plainsman and have very rarely used Rugers to do it.

Lefty Eastman has won championships all over the place and I don’t think he has ever used the ROA.

In my opinion the pretty good copies of the originals are just fine for Frontiersman and Plainsman.

Don't get me wrong It's not the Ruger I'm at issue with, it's the adjustable sights.