Badlands Bob #61228 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have a brand new Cimmaron 97. I won the thing in a drawing several years ago and it's been sitting in the gun safe. I decided to get it cleaned up and working so I'd have a back up to my backup for Wild Bunch. I easily loaded 6 shells into the mag tube. Good. Then I racked it and one shell went into the chamber and one hit the ground. Not good. I took it all apart, cleaned and got all the gunk out of it. Lots of gunk inside. I polished up some of the moving parts but did not grind or file anything. Everything was oiled back up and I tried it again. One shell into the chamber and one hit the ground. It only seems to do it on the first cycle when there are 6 shells in the magazine tube. Any ideas? What is causing this and can I fix it. Badlands Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sounds like the tension on the magazine spring is simply pushing the shell past the cartridge stops. If this is the only problem you have, take it to a 97 smith and let him solve your problem. Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Shell stops sound like they are not holding the shell in the mag tube when cycling with the mag filled. As the mag empties and spring pressure is reduced, the shell stops are able to hold back just 4 or 3 or two shells. Can you fix it? Don't know, how good are you with diagnosing and fixing 97s? Can a good 97 smith fix it? Most certainly. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Call Cimarron.One reason they charge more for what they sell is they will stand behind their products.Tell them exactly what you wrote in your description.I'd bet they'll tell you to send it in and they will repair it or replace it if it can't be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 When you put in that sixth shell is it bottomed out or can you start a seventh shell? Sounds it isn't actually quite holding six shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 When you put in that sixth shell is it bottomed out or can you start a seventh shell? Sounds it isn't actually quite holding six shells. The 6th shell goes in easily and actually has another inch of room. Once the spring tension is reduced with the subsuquent shells, it works fine. It loads the first one and then dumps one out the bottom. The rest seem to work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Call Cimarron.One reason they charge more for what they sell is they will stand behind their products.Tell them exactly what you wrote in your description.I'd bet they'll tell you to send it in and they will repair it or replace it if it can't be fixed. More than likely Cimarron will tell you that the gun is designed to hold and function well with 5 rounds in the mag. Which is true. Our loading 6 in the tube is not what Browning designed the '97 for. Cimarron could quite easily say there's no problem. Don't think you would get an answer that satisfies the OP by doing that. Most likely the mag spring can be shortened a little bit to fix the problem. If the mag spring sticks out past the tube end more than about 1.5 inches, it would be worth shortening the spring some, to reduce pressure. Downside - you shorten the spring too much and the last shell in the tube won't always pop out onto the carrier when it is time. But, more mag tube springs are easily available. Also, you should check for full functional travel on the shell stops, and that they have enough tension to hold that round where there are 5 in the tube while action cycles. Might need slightly stronger tension. And, a spring/follower kit is available from Wild Bodie Tom (or LongHunter) that makes the 97 IAC guns run well with 6 in the tube. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 You could remove the stop/spring assemblies and increase the spring tension a little by bending the springs. The TTN/Polytech/Cimmaron cartridge stops have their springs spot welded to the stop if I am not mistaken so when you bend the leaf spring, be sure to support the spring enough at the weld so the weld doesn't crack or break from the stop. You can also check the tip of each stop to make sure that there is a relatively sharp edge to catch the rim of the shell still in the mag tube. A radius there will tend to allow the shell to overcome the spring tension rather than just catching on the protruding stop edges facing the mag tube. You can also bevel the lower front carrier tips/corners where it opens and closes the stops as it passes by which will slightly change the duration that the mag tube is "open" or letting shells into the receiver as well as when the stops open and close. This beveling will also smooth the action a little. Can't remember for sure but I think my 09 Norinco carrier is more beveled there than the Cimmaron version is.....or I should say was. Mine had a similar issue and the above is how it was solved....increase stop spring pressure a touch and filing of the stop tips so that they would catch the shell rims in a more positively.....Mine would let two in the chamber/receiver at once too but like you this would happen mostly when all 6 were in the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Bluesteele, SASS #37143 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Had the same problem with the same gun. Replaced the cartridge stops and all is now well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Update: I measured the magazine spring and it was 5" longer than the mag tube. I cut it down to 3". Loaded it up and it seems to work. No more shells out the bottom and the last shell loads good too. Now off to the range to see what happens under recoil. Thanks for the help. Badlands Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Well, I went to the range today and it works great. No more shells flying out the bottom. I ran 6 as fast as I could pump it. I guess cutting 2" off that spring fixed it. Thanks for the help. Badlands Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 More than likely Cimarron will tell you that the gun is designed to hold and function well with 5 rounds in the mag. Which is true. Our loading 6 in the tube is not what Browning designed the '97 for. Cimarron could quite easily say there's no problem. Don't think you would get an answer that satisfies the OP by doing that. Most likely the mag spring can be shortened a little bit to fix the problem. If the mag spring sticks out past the tube end more than about 1.5 inches, it would be worth shortening the spring some, to reduce pressure. Downside - you shorten the spring too much and the last shell in the tube won't always pop out onto the carrier when it is time. But, more mag tube springs are easily available. Also, you should check for full functional travel on the shell stops, and that they have enough tension to hold that round where there are 5 in the tube while action cycles. Might need slightly stronger tension. And, a spring/follower kit is available from Wild Bodie Tom (or LongHunter) that makes the 97 IAC guns run well with 6 in the tube. Good luck, GJ As pointed out by Monco, the Cimarron is the old TTN, different gun from the IAC. Cimarron bought out TTN remember. We shouldn't have to be "fixing" our 97s, original or clone, to hold 6 in the mag. Saint John Moses designed it to hold 5. So that is what we should be writing WB stages for -- 5 not 6. How we ever got started on this downright wrong kick of 6 sg rounds per stage is a mystery and a problem. We should quit doing it. 5 sg rounds per stage is fine. Don't need an even number as we don't allow doubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 So that is what we should be writing WB stages for -- 5 not 6. How we ever got started on this downright wrong kick of 6 sg rounds per stage is a mystery and a problem. We should quit doing it. 5 sg rounds per stage is fine. Can I suggest that a better place to discuss the Wild Bunch rules and your preferences about them would be on the Wild Bunch forum. Which you do use, I know. Just seems that this is a little bit of a thread hijack. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just seems that this is a little bit of a thread hijack. Like hijacking threads never happened around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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