Carrier Appears To Be Catching During While Shooting

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

I don't know where to start trying to figure out this problem. During the ejection/loading process the rifle frequently catches causing me to keep levering the gun until the shell loads. This has been happening quite a bit over the past couple of years. I usually complain and have tried making adjustments to my ammo thinking they were too long, short, not crimped enough, wrong bullet or whatever. Yesterday I noticed that the carrier seemed to be catching on the round still in the mag tube on the upstroke. I noticed things were a little dirty so I took it apart and cleaned it. Went out to see if that fixed things and it didn't. I have noticed when shooting I can normally get a good rhythm going for 3-4 rounds have it catch a couple of times and the last couple of rounds are pretty smooth.

 

I have become more than a little frustrated.

 

Should I experiment with adjusting my reloads regarding OAL, crimp, bullets or focus on the gun being the problem? If ammo where do I start and what steps should I go through.

 

Thanks for the ideas.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

I don't know where to start trying to figure out this problem. During the ejection/loading process the rifle frequently catches causing me to keep levering the gun until the shell loads. This has been happening quite a bit over the past couple of years. I usually complain and have tried making adjustments to my ammo thinking they were too long, short, not crimped enough, wrong bullet or whatever. Yesterday I noticed that the carrier seemed to be catching on the round still in the mag tube on the upstroke. I noticed things were a little dirty so I took it apart and cleaned it. Went out to see if that fixed things and it didn't. I have noticed when shooting I can normally get a good rhythm going for 3-4 rounds have it catch a couple of times and the last couple of rounds are pretty smooth.

 

I have become more than a little frustrated.

 

Should I experiment with adjusting my reloads regarding OAL, crimp, bullets or focus on the gun being the problem? If ammo where do I start and what steps should I go through.

 

Thanks for the ideas.

What kinda rifle we talkin' about here?

 

Fillmore

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

I knew I forgot something.

 

1894 Marlin in .38. The gun is about 5 years old.

[C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100]

look on the bottom of the carrier.

 

If it has developed a groove, replace the carrier.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Good morning Pitmaster.

 

When your 'carrier catches', where is the front of the carrier located in relations to that next round in the mag tube?

 

IF the front of the carrier is too low and the rim is edging out onto the carrier, then your timing is off alittle.

 

IF the front of your carrier has already cleared the lower portion of the rim in the mag tube and starts to catch at that point, then that RIM of the round in the mag tube is catching on the upper portion of the frame and not being able to push back up into the magazine.

 

With DUMMY rounds, check out exactly which situation might be the gremlin and then we can start getting your problem cured correctly. And hopefully with little cost you can have your Marlin running great again.

 

If your rounds are too long, the bullet 'can' snag alittle coming from the mag tube because the upward movement of the carrier will pinch on it coming out of the mag tube. But from your description, I doubt this is your problem especially since you've tried different length rounds.

 

EDITED: On the Marlin, the front edge of the carrier is what keeps each subsequent round in the mag tube from exiting onto the carrier until each lever cycle has been completed.

The carrier has to be long enough to 'rub' by the rim of the cartridge in the mag tube yet not tooooo long that it will drag on the receiver during its upward/downward movements.

There are those circumstances, either thru wear or alittle tooooo much polishing on the front edge of the carrier, that the carrier gets just short enough that when it stops that next round in the mag tube, that round has managed to pertrude just enough that the rim is nudging out beyond the receiver wall edge. Your timing might be in good shape but when the carrier tries to move by that next round in the mag tube, the edge of the rim catches on the sharp edge at 12:00 o'clock position. This edge can be beveled and allow free movement of that round to be pushed back into its correct position in the mag tube until it is its turn to feed onto the carrier.

 

IF the front of the carrier is borderline on its proper length, the reason this type jam only occasionally occurs is because some brass has thinner rims and will catch. Brass with a thicker rim might run perfect all the time. Then all of a sudden, ya get that 'catch' because the thinner rim has pertruded far enough to get caught on the receivers edge.

 

Just thought I would throw this info in as a freebee!

 

..........Widder

[Ranger Dunn]

Pitmaster, I also have a Marlin 1894c (the 18" carbine) that behaved much the same as yours when I first got it. Mine is an older model that had never been used for a CAS gun so the carrier groove was not present. I have played around with OAL, bullet shape, and the amount of crimp along with other common mods. The changes I have made are to replace the firing pin with a one piece unit, a lighter hammer spring, and lighter lever plunger spring, I also lightened the safety interlock spring just a little by bending it slightly. I also took a dremmel tool with a felt polishing tip and some Flitz metal polish and polished ALL the rub areas I could find, and I shortened the magazine tube spring about 2" or 3". OAL seems to be very important as well as bullet shape, although mine will feed ok down to 1.45" it seems to prefer 1.50". Mine feeds 158gr rnfp, 125gr tc, 130gr rnfp pretty well with the 130gr being the best (this bullet is shaped like a 9mm with the tip cut off) I also use the Lee factory crimp die with a fairly heavy roll crimp, for example when you run your finger over the crimped area you feel almost nothing, very smooth transition. Now my Marlin is very slick and can be levered with 2 fingers as fast I can go with no feed issues. All this was done over a couple months time and I like to tinker with mechanical things, if you do not like this kind of thing I would suggest one of our fine cowboy gunsmiths here on the wire. Hope this helps.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Da Widder knows. Pay heed.

 

CR

[Ranger Dunn]

Also listen to Widder, he really knows!

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

look on the bottom of the carrier.

 

If it has developed a groove, replace the carrier.

 

I know of a secret to 'improve' the carrier if needed if that's the case - send it to me Pitmaster

 

GG ~

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

One little test. Hold the rifle muzzle up and cycle dummies through it at a fairly fast rate. If it feeds better, I suggest you look real close at the condition of the mag tube and follower. If you have rust inside the mag tube that causes the follower to drag, the rounds in the tube will be "behind" a fast rate of cycling, causing the rifle to try and chop em in half. The idea that this seems to happen halfway through a firing string tells me there can be a rough spot in the mag tube. I polish em with an old brush wrapped with steel wool and chucked in a drill motor until the inside of the tube shines like a mirror, then wax it with hard furniture or car wax. If the mag tube spring is rusty, change it out, using a SS spring cut 3" longer than the tube.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy AJ:

 

Thats always good to check and that would have been one of my first thoughts also because Pitmaster stated that it usually happens 1/2 way thru his string. But then he stated that he took it apart and cleaned it and still had the same issues. I'm hoping that he cleaned the whole gun, including the mag tube, when he took it apart and cleaned it up.

 

 

..........Widder

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Howdy AJ:

 

Thats always good to check and that would have been one of my first thoughts also because Pitmaster stated that it usually happens 1/2 way thru his string. But then he stated that he took it apart and cleaned it and still had the same issues. I'm hoping that he cleaned the whole gun, including the mag tube, when he took it apart and cleaned it up.

 

 

 

 

..........Widder

 

As we've learned over time, a Marlin action is subtle, and a handful of possible issues can make it a nightmare when run fast. NO ONE ISSUE is always gonna be the answer, so ya pretty much have to run a series of tests to eliminate possibilities as you go.... I just threw this one out because it is one I discovered while chasing phantoms in the carrier/lever, and it ended up being the mag tube....

[Ranger Dunn]

Yep, I also forgot to mention that I also polished the mag tube and follower.

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. I'm not particularly mechanically inclined especially when trying to figure out something like this. I'm going to be working through the selections. I did clean the magazine tube but I did not take out the "follower(?)". I'll do that while I still have the rifle apart. I removed the carrier and found more cleaning to do. The carrier did not have a groove in it but there was an edge that was peened over and had a burred edge. I took that to a friend who is a gunsmith (not an expert but I trust his judgement) to ask his opinion about the carrier. He didn't think that was the problem but we removed it anyway. I'm going finish cleaning the mag tube, review the suggestions above, and review Widowmaker's post for more information. Then put it back together and try it again. Then go step by step through the rest of the suggestions. From what I understand from your posts and what I remember visualizing I think timing may be the problem. My buddy thought it might be the guides but the carrier does catch at the round in the mag tube.

 

One thing I did was gather up 10 rounds of the various bullets I use and have and tried all of them to see if they worked. I had a box of Winchester 125 grain 38 special, silver tip hollow points that ran like poop through a goose. I measured them and ran 10 more rounds of cartridges with that same OAL and the problem returned.

 

My preferred bullet is Snakebite Greasewagon Big Lube bullets. Some of the bullets I have cast myself but others I have bought from Whyte Leather Works.

[Noz]

Sounds to me like the beginning of the "DREADED MARLIN JAM".

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

Update, while handling the parts the trigger/hammer assembly came apart and after a frustrating hour of trying to figure out how to put it back together I have taken a break from my "tenderfoot gunsmithing experience" for the next 24 hours. ,

 

I'll have to break out the DVD and hope it shows me how to put it back together.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Update, while handling the parts the trigger/hammer assembly came apart and after a frustrating hour of trying to figure out how to put it back together I have taken a break from my "tenderfoot gunsmithing experience" for the next 24 hours. ,

 

I'll have to break out the DVD and hope it shows me how to put it back together.

 

Pitmaster:

 

if it will help, feel free to holler at me either tonight before 10 or tomorrow afternoon, probably after 4:00. I'm headin up to Bulls Gap tomorrow for a match and won't be home till after 4ish.

 

865/984-4455

 

Plus, I'm sure your gunsmith friend can help ya tremendiously.

 

EDIT: I just noticed that you live in Indiana. If your close to Ketchum Quick, he would be the Marlin man I would see. He's good. Just ask Gunner Gatlin.

 

..........Widder

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

Thanks Widder,

 

I won't be calling last night. I was all ready out for the night. I know I've met Ketchum at Paradise Pass. I've been wanting to go shoot at Rockford and wish I could run up there this morning. I've got a month until the next match around here. I'm not in quite a rush to go shoot today. I was going to PP today but I'm too low on rifle ammo or both of my 1894's (38 & 44). If I get a chance to call this afternoon I will. I do have a video that might show me what to do. I'll try that first.

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

I believe the problem has been solved. The ammo seems to have been the problem. Factory rounds went right through so I adjusted the dies to match them, made up 10 dummy rounds, and they went through the goose without a glitch. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. One thing I have learned is to quit trying to fix things myself.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Pitmaster:

 

thanks for posting the update.

 

I had read in your post #14 that you tried that earlier with little success but apparently something started working for ya. Thats good news.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

Pitmaster:

 

thanks for posting the update.

 

I had read in your post #14 that you tried that earlier with little success but apparently something started working for ya. Thats good news.

 

 

 

There were a couple of other tweaks. I had cast quite a few Snakebite Greasewagon Bullets (Big Lube) last year. Evidently some were wrinkled and probably causing some of the problem. I had some of the same bullets from Whyte Leather Works and the dummy rounds we made from them worked. Next casting session I will pay a little more attention to the process.