Loading difficulty with Uberti/Winchester 1885

[Kid Latham, SASS #79471]

Two of us shooting SASS long range with our Uberti 1885 .45-70s have been experiencing the same difficulty with our rifles. Action open. Load a round into chamber. (At this point, the cartridge does not fully chamber.) Try to close the action. Rim of cartridge catches block, preventing the action from closing and chambering the round. Must manually push the cartridge the rest of the way (approx. 1/4") into chamber to close action. This is both disconcerting and time consuming during competition. No matter how carefully we insert the cartridge on the first step, pushing it in as far as it will go at that point, the problem has persisted for several months.

 

It would appear that the angle on the top beveled edge of the block, that is designed to force the round into the chamber, needs to be slightly increased to perform its function, but I'm not ready to start altering the factory set parts.

 

Both of us, with similar Uberti guns, are having this same problem, and it happens just about every time.

 

Any one else experienced this problem? Any thoughts from the experts out there before we head for our Cowboy gunsmith?

 

Thanks,

 

Kid Latham

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

I had a similar problem with my Sharps. Would load a round and it would try to pop back out. Turns out the culprit was the extractor - with the action open it had enough pushback pressure to make loading at speed a problem. That might be one thing to look at.

 

I also radiused the top front edge of the breechblock to prevent the hang-up you're describing. Now even if the cartridge tries to come back out the block rides over the rim and pushes the cartridge back in to the chamber.

[Kougarok George]

I used to shoot a lot of old Winchesters.

To be sure I always did a chamber cast and barrel swage to know what sizes I was dealing with.

Your loaded cartridge could be just a little oversize. I think you need .001 clearance between the case and the chamber.

Might be to tight in the neck?

kg

[Doc Coles SASS 1188]

You could be making the rounds too long. You should also make sure that the chamber is clean. You can get a ring of lead and powder fouling that can cause a real problem. This happens with my Sharps when I shoot long strings; giving the chamber a good cleaning fixes it. In general, if you are relying on the action to force the round in, there is something wrong. The rounds should slip right in.

[Kid Latham, SASS #79471]

We've both been using factory ammo - Ultramax cowboy loads, so I doubt that sizing or oal is the problem. And, both being new guns, shouldn't require a chamber cast. Both guns get a thorough cleaning after each match.

Kid Latham

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

So many thing to check.

 

1. Measure the rim diameter of your brass. I run in to several manufacturers that are using over spec cases. Some require turning down the diameter to spec to chamber properly. You may notice this if you reload as the cases don't fit in the shell plate easily. If the rim is over size it will usually stop the round from chambering as the rim hits the receiver. It will not usually stop the round with the rim away from the receiver.

 

2. Just because it is a new rifle does not mean the chamber is in spec. Old tooling can cut under sized chambers. The tool could also not have been pushed to finish depth leaving a short chamber. This can be fixed if it is the issue.

 

3. The rounds them self may be out of spec. The bullet may have a over sized diameter. (not usually) Factory ammunition tends to use undersized bullets so they will fit all guns even those with under sized chambers.

 

I would start with the ammunition. I would place my calipers on the case about 3/8" from the case end over where the bullet is in the case. Take a reading and then slide the calipers to the neck of the case watching the calipers to see if the diameter jumps up a few thousandths as I near the last 1/8" of the case. I refer to this as case bulge. This is bulge seems to be common with long rifle brass and bottle neck brass. I use a second sizing die to resize the last 1/8" of all rifle rounds and bottle neck cases to remove this bulge. This bulge will cause a round to not chamber the last little bit. As much as a 1/4". But you can push the round all the way in with your finger or with the bolt on a lever gun.

 

I use a second sizing die with the decapping pin removed. Some are using what is called a Factory Crimp Die which squeezes the last bit of the case at the case mouth which also removed the case bulge.

[Kid Latham, SASS #79471]

Thank you all for taking the time and trouble of responding.

 

I see now where my frustration over this issue perhaps allowed me to inaccurately state the facts, and may have led some of you down the wrong path. I should have been more specific regarding the occurrence of this problem. This happens, with both rifles, on at least one to three out of every five shots, but not with every shot.

 

Since we're dealing with two, one-year-old Uberti's, the same basic model, and both of us using the same factory ammunition (Magtech Cowboy Loads) it seems highly unlikely that this could be a throat problem with both rifles. If it was, wouldn't it do this with every round loaded? And, what's the chance of two Ubertis, bought months apart, coming out of the factory with a throat problem?

 

I should also emphasize that both rifles are thoroughly cleaned after each match, including the chambers, and that neither of us, at present, use reloads, only factory ammo.

 

I'm leaning more towards the idea that the extractors may not be fully retracting after the rifles are opened, thereby preventing the cartridge from fully chambering when inserted. But, I haven't had a chance to test this out yet. Is there any other consideration I might be missing?

 

Thanks,

Kid Latham

[Trailrider #896]

Howdy, Pard,

If this is only happening once on every few rounds, it suggests the ammunition may be part of the problem. I would measure the rim and base diameters of the cartridges that give you trouble. A slight bulge where the web of the case transisions to the wall of the case plus a slightly oversided rim could combine to give you problems. Have you tried other brands of brass? It may be that, as was suggested, you need to run the cases into a base resizing die before the first firing. You probably would only need to do this once in the lifetime of the case.

 

Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America!

 

Your Pard,

[stepnmud#33546]

Have a Uberti Hiwall 45-70 and been using it for the past ten years. PMC 405gr. lead rnfp worked well for me, but sometimes my reloads would hang up on the last 1/4" from chambering.

So mine was reloader problem . Anyways, I now put the rifle in a horizontal rifle rack and completely open the lever and insert each and every round to be fired in the chamber and use a wood dow rod from the muzzle to expend the live round. If the rounds hangup when finger pressure is not enough to completely chamber a round, then it is not used in the current condition. Sometimes the brass needs to be fully resized or maybe the 45-70 rounds are too long or even .458" dia. not work. Still guessing it's an ammo thing.

[Tom Bullweed]

1. Take a loaded case and makred it completely on the ouside with a dark magic marker (or die marker if you have it). Chamber it. Any tight spots will show by removing the marking.

2. Call the distributor to see if they ahve had similar issues. Two guns made about the same time in the same chambering could be defective in the same manner due to tool wear or variations in the manufacturing process.

3. Be glad that you are in Tenn in the 21-st century. Having this problem in 1890 in the Montana wilds would be an adventure!

This sounds like a simple problem. You should be able to nail this issue and go on enjoying a very fine rifle.

You did not state the cartridge in question. Tapered or bottlenecked cartridges could be subject to problems with sizing.