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open, closed and stop


Matthew Duncan

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A true story...well some parts of it.

 

Long, long time ago I was a Deputy for a "hick" town.

 

I stopped a Lincoln Continental that had slowed for a stop sign then proceeded to roll on thru the intersection.

 

Driver was very indignant. He informed me that he was a Yale graduate and a very successful Chicago Attorney. He had forgotten more law then what a hick town Deputy would ever know!

 

If I could satisfactory explain to him the difference between slowing and stopping he would not contest the ticket!

 

I asked him to step out of his vehicle. Then I started to beat him with my nightstick.

 

After a few minutes I ask him if he wanted me to slow down or stop.

 

You're on the firing line and hear STOP! You don't slow down, you don't look both ways and then proceed, you STOP doing what you're doing and wait!

 

 

 

Open or closed?

 

What is the purpose of the rule to have the rifle action open? Common sense would dictate, it is for an layer of safety.

 

If it was your child or grandchild at risk would you argue that if the lever wasn't tight against the stock then the action was "open". Or would you argue that the lever had to be extended as far as possible before the action would be "open"?

 

Is it real worth putting someone else jeopardy just for bragging rights, a certificate or saving a micro second from a score?

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A true story...well some parts of it.

 

Long, long time ago I was a Deputy for a "hick" town.

 

I stopped a Lincoln Continental that had slowed for a stop sign then proceeded to roll on thru the intersection.

 

Driver was very indignant. He informed me that he was a Yale graduate and a very successful Chicago Attorney. He had forgotten more law then what a hick town Deputy would ever know!

 

If I could satisfactory explain to him the difference between slowing and stopping he would not contest the ticket!

 

I asked him to step out of his vehicle. Then I started to beat him with my nightstick.

 

After a few minutes I ask him if he wanted me to slow down or stop.

 

You're on the firing line and hear STOP! You don't slow down, you don't look both ways and then proceed, you STOP doing what you're doing and wait!

 

 

 

Open or closed?

 

What is the purpose of the rule to have the rifle action open? Common sense would dictate, it is for an layer of safety.

 

If it was your child or grandchild at risk would you argue that if the lever wasn't tight against the stock then the action was "open". Or would you argue that the lever had to be extended as far as possible before the action would be "open"?

 

Is it real worth putting someone else jeopardy just for bragging rights, a certificate or saving a micro second from a score?

So how far does the lever have to be open, when half open you can see the bolt is mostly back and you can see the chamber, it that open? On a double, how far open does it have to be? If it is half open, you can see into the chamber?

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lETS GO TO THE NEXT LOGIACL STEP. ONE A PISTOL IS FIRED (OR PISTOLS FOR GUNFIGHER), THE SHOOTER, UNDER SPERVISION OF THE TO/RO WILL UNLOAD THE PISTOL BEFORE PROCEEDING TO THE NEXT WEAPON. THAT WAY WE CAN INSURE THEY ARE SAFE, AND IT SPEED THINGS UP AT THE UL TABLE, BECASUE THE UL TABLE OFFICAL WILL ONLY HAVE TO VERIFRY CAMBBER ARE EMPTY.

 

BETTER YET, THE SHOOTER WILL PROCEED TO THE UL TABLE AFTER FIRING EACH WEAPON, CLEAR IT, LEAVE IN ON UL TABLE, BACK TO THE FIRING LINE FOR NEXT UNTIL ALL ARE SHOOT.

 

COME ON NOW , I KNOW ITS BEEN A LONG COLD SPELL AND SOME OF US HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SHOOT, BUT LSTS GET REAL HERE, THE HORSE IS DEAD, AND NO AMOUNT OF BEATING IS GOING TO BRING IT BACK TO LIFE. OPEN IS OPEN, CLOSED IS CLOSED.

 

IF YOU WANT TO USE ARGUMENT THAT A BOLT 3/4 FORWARD IS OPEN,THEN 1/16 " FROM FULLY OPEN IS CLOSED.

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Open or closed?

 

What is the purpose of the rule to have the rifle action open? Common sense would dictate, it is for an layer of safety.

 

Yes, a layer of safety. It appears you need a real thick layer of safety. Others can not even stand being near a firearm because their layer of safety is reallllly thick.

 

If it was your child or grandchild at risk would you argue that if the lever wasn't tight against the stock then the action was "open". Or would you argue that the lever had to be extended as far as possible before the action would be "open"?

 

We are talking about a restaged firearm with the action in an unknown state of being open/closed, right? I am a responsible person and wouldn't allow my child or grandchild to be in front of the muzzle in the first place. If for whatever reason they were placed in front of the muzzle, I would remove them quickly. We already have a penalty for sweeping someone with a muzzle of a firearm. Your argument is a bit weak on this one by throwing Nuns/orphans/children/widowers/crips into the argument.

Is it real worth putting someone else jeopardy just for bragging rights, a certificate or saving a micro second from a score?

 

What jeopardy of a gun with a firearm pointed safely down range and no one is down range (with action open to a point of the action will not let the firing pin hit the primer? Jeopardy rises 'if' firearm has fully closed action and is restaged vertical and is in a very shakey gun holder about ready to fall. There are numerous safety rules and precaustions built into SASS. Good. Kind of like going sky diving with multiple reserve chutes attached to oneself.

 

Right now, it is a judgement call by the TO to make the call on 'if' an action (thinking rifle) is fully closed or not. Hmmmmm, judgement call. It would be nice if all the RO had to do is trip the trigger on the firearm that is restaged horizontally and is pointed safely downrange, to verify if the action is closed for the action to work. If hammer falls, penalty. If hammer doesn't fall, then no call. This wouldn't work for a vertical staged long gun.

 

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I am all bout safety

spent my hole life in heavy construction

still have all my fingers, and a crane has never dropped anything on me

 

I dream of "SASS of the past"

the days, when folks understood that life has it's perils

and yet we do what seems resonable (not at all cost) to prevent them

 

fellers

no one wants an out of battery discharge

but that aint what we are really talking about, when we argue

----------open and closed-------

AFTER a shooting string is complete & the shooter is re-staging their long gun

 

with that being said

Stop does mean stop, when ya hear it from the Timer operator standing just inches away from you

 

in my most humble opinion, I aint a gunna STOP, if someone out in the parking lot yells it!

 

 

 

 

geeeeeese

 

fire away

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

perils

3rd person singular present, plural of per·il (Noun)

1. Serious and immediate danger.

2. The dangers or difficulties that arise from a particular situation or activity.

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...in my most humble opinion, I aint a gunna STOP, if someone out in the parking lot yells it!...

 

If'n you can hear someone out in the parking lot yell stop you had better STOP! You ain't got you ears in! :)

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I posted this before, but folks evidently didn't comprehend, think things through or understand....

 

For example, someone said that the shotgun MUST be ALL the Way open..In which case, every time you set down a SxS shotgun, I will give you a minor safety penalty.

 

Practically all internal hammer SxS guns slightly close whenever the barrel is not holding down the springs - and quite often, you have to hold the barrel down to have it fully open.

Similarly, most 97's will simetimes close up to a 1/4 of an inch when you set them down.

 

And the rifles will very often slightly close when you set them on even a flat table, let along some of the other props commonly used.

 

So I am thinking some of you have not thought this out well at all.

 

Again, we have penalties if an empty cartridge or live cartridge is left in the action. So the rule about an open action is primarily so we can verify that no dangerous empty cartridge - or live cartridge is in the action.

 

Plus, the practicality of requiring and verifying that the action is "fully open" would be cumbersome and may require a committee to examine the gun before the shooter picks it up. That would be fun!!!

 

As to concerns about out of battery incidents - see the rules about empty guns. Plus most out of battery discharges for rifles and 97's are from the extractors - and generally, the gun is pretty much open when they happen.

 

Yes, we want to be safe, but we still want to shoot guns without having them locked down.

 

So, no, it is NOT the same as a stop sign.

 

And that is not definitely not the voice of reason, but of misunderstanding and thinking fitting someone who is anti-gun.

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Y'know, a very wise Rangemaster of my acquaintance once said "If it isn't CLOSED, then it's open." Open is anything other than CLOSED." That's the way we roll, and it sure seemed to work!

 

This is the way most normal SASS/CAS folks roll...but then you get the over-analysing folks that are going to drive this game right into oblivion where we'll be shooting blanks wearing bullet proof body suits...all in the name of...safety.

 

These discussions are stoopid. SASS/CAS is safe as is...in fact it's a bit overboard in some cases. But as some of you will say, you can never be too safe.

 

:wacko:

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These discussions are stoopid. SASS/CAS is safe as is...in fact it's a bit overboard in some cases. But as some of you will say, you can never be too safe.

 

:wacko:

is it safe to say that??? LOL

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Lever position ain't got anything to do with it... I've been shooting the same gun since 1987, 1873 clone, never had anything done to it except a new bolt and extractor several years back. My lever is so far forward that some folks think it's broke... they probably just ain't ever seen one WiTHOUT a short stroke... and if you lay a SS '73 next to it, theirs is probably only ½ as "open" as mine. NOT!

 

Marauder and Phantom are correct! 'Nuff said.

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