Bart Solo Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I am about to buy some Ruger Vaqueros in 357/38. I don't really need them, but I want them because people tell me I won't improve much if I don't retire my beloved 45s. The cost of a slicked up SASS Ruger is about $100 per gun more than SASS Rugers out of the box. I have no problem justifying having other pistols slicked up, but what about the SASS model Ruger Vaquero. Should I have them tuned? I have heard they are pretty good out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 That's kind of a hard question to answer because what is "pretty good" is subjective. A lot of people find the New Vaqueros perfectly acceptable out of the box. An action job can always improve an out of the box gun. Who knows what you find "pretty good." Whether you should have them tuned depends on how discriminating you are as far as hammer and trigger feel. Go to a store and pick up any New Vaquero and cock it a few times. If you don't like the way if feels, it needs tuning. I tune all of them and start with a complete disassembly. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/p...r1/P1020997.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 They work. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Bane, SASS 13557 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I shot a straight out-of-the-box set for the last 6 months while I was having my match Blackhawks overhauled...no complaints whatsoever. Wolf Bane SASAs13557 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macinaw Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Look at Long Hunters Supply- His Rugers cost less than most local gunshops; and include the action job in the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Bart, as Larsen sez, its subjective. I ain't tryin to be funny but another thought that crossed my mine is that the $100 difference per pistol might not be critical IF the regular pistol is $300 and the SASS Ruger is on $400. BUT, ifn the regular pistol is $500 and the SASS Ruger is $600, then that $100 starts to look like a big difference. in other words, with the $400 range, you can sell em and get your money back. in the $600 range, it would be harder to move em. Just something else to consider. I would also like to defend the .45 If anyone tells you that they can't be competitive and that they are slower, tell em to call me and I'll be glad to enlighten them alittle. The .45 took on a whole new dimention when Adirondack Jack come out with his Cowboy .45 Special brass. That is a great little round and highly suitable for CAS. I use my .38 Vaq and .45 Vaq during the year and actually prefer my .45's. But, its ALOT cheaper for me to practice with my .38's and therefore use them. Best regards ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 As Widder pointed out http://www.cowboy45special.com/cowboy45brass.html just could be the solution to your problem. To answer your question most Ruger's shoot out of the box, had a pard ask me back three years ago after getting some other brand SAA. He had problems rite off out of the box, He said to me are their any revolvers that work out of the box? My answer was for the most part any Ruger's function fine rite out of the box. As to all the Ruger's I've seen over the years only one wouldn't function out of the box. The pard asked me what he should do, I told him to call Ruger he did and they sent out a call tag and had his Vaquero back to him in two weeks working just fine. Only one I've ever seen that had a problem out of the box. Adios Sgt. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I am about to buy some Ruger Vaqueros in 357/38. I don't really need them, but I want them because people tell me I won't improve much if I don't retire my beloved 45s. The cost of a slicked up SASS Ruger is about $100 per gun more than SASS Rugers out of the box. I have no problem justifying having other pistols slicked up, but what about the SASS model Ruger Vaquero. Should I have them tuned? I have heard they are pretty good out of the box. I guess I'll call foul on that statement. People tend to project their own limitations onto others. Just because they can't get better than they are unless they switch to .357 is no reason for you to accept that limitation on yourself. It is easy to load the .45 Colt to a mild level, and AJ and others have mastered that using the Cowboy specials, as well as using 200 or even 185 gr bullets loaded in the 600 f/s range. It is also possible to go faster with a .38 than a .45, if you are already at the point where the only thing slowing you down in the recoil recovery time. I suspect that if you are shooting with splits below a half second per shot, and your time to change guns is below the four second range, then you might be in a position to gain by going to a smaller caliber. If you're not already running your .45s at half second split times, and if your gun transitions are taking more than 4 seconds per gun type, you can still improve shooting your current .45's, by practicing technique. There is an advantage to using .38's, not saying there isn't. Cost of ammo, and reduced recoil and noise are some of the benefits, as is perhaps a slightly faster sight recovery time. If you want .38's cause you want a new set of guns, that's a good reason right there. It is not the case that you cannot get good enough to win using a .45. Changing to .38 is just an easy way to get a little better on your shot to shot times. Believe me - the guys who are winning are not winning because of that issue - they're winning because they practice the right stuff - transitions and movement. To answer your actual question - out of the box Ruger's are fine guns as they are - they benefit from a few thousand dry fire rounds, as does the shooter. The only replacement I'd make, if you want to, is to buy the Brownells Wolff Spring kit that uses a #16 pound main spring. That will make a little improvement, as will reducing the trigger return spring to 40 or even 30 ounces will also lighten the trigger. If you want - have the forcing cone cut to 11 degree's - the stock does lead a bit - but nothing you can't live with. Other than that they should go a few hundred thousand rounds - if you want. Good luck with whatever choice you make . . . Shadow Catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I am about to buy some Ruger Vaqueros in 357/38. I don't really need them, but I want them because people tell me I won't improve much if I don't retire my beloved 45s. The cost of a slicked up SASS Ruger is about $100 per gun more than SASS Rugers out of the box. I have no problem justifying having other pistols slicked up, but what about the SASS model Ruger Vaquero. Should I have them tuned? I have heard they are pretty good out of the box. i bought two pairs (sass ones, I like riding fer the brand) one pair fer smokeless for pair fer smoke they are great out of the box but I still had wes look em over, cuz I like him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Bart, I started with ORVs about 10 years ago. Both needed some internal polishing, one had a transfer bar that looked like it was in "as cast" condition which took considerable polishing, which made them smooth enough to allow lighter springs. Switched to some Remington clones then after one of what I thought were the only two good Taurus Gauchos decided to disassemble itself in the middle of a stage at the state match I figured it was time to go back to some Rugers. At the same time some SASS RVs were available so I snagged them up. I have taken them apart more for peace of mind than any need. I had to search for places that might benefit from some polishing. They were much better than the ORVs out of the box. They still have the stock springs, but I have done the poor man's trigger job. I have medium size hands but long fingers so I added a thin spacer under the grip. Other than that they are stock, my misses have decreased and stage times have gone down. I am a very happy cowboy. Hope this helps Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Bad Bob Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Mine was good right out of the box. I did a "poor man's" trigger job, then undid it, and with time and shooting it's now very light and smooth. Mine is a .357 too. I'm probably getting another one sometime this spring or summer so I will have a pair and can start competing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Thanks for all the comments. I have been shooting the NMV in 45 for two years. Frankly, my current 45s are pretty slick. I shoot 200 grain bullets with a light load of TB. I don't perveive a real problem with muzzle flip. I realize that I will improve my times if I continue practicing my transitions. I am committed to buying a 73 to replace my EMF Hartford 92 clone. Last fall I was able to outrun the 92 and had to consciously slow down just a tad to make sure the rifle functioned properly. It is clear that I can gain time with a new rifle. I have been told by several people I shoot with that I would benefit by shooting a shortstroked 66 or 73. I was very impressed by the 73s I have cycled. Talking to some of the top SASS gunsmiths, they are unanimous that I should buy the 73 in 357/38, and not in 45. The lone voice for a 45 in 73 is one of the better pards I shoot with who is very competitive with his 45. Anyway my point is my only reason for acquiring new pistols in 38/357 is to make my reloading easier. I am trying to figure out if that is worth $600 a pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Bart, This is one of those personal choice kind of things. A race ready '73 is a big expense so it will definitely pay to get it in a caliber you intend to use down the road and if you are going to go 38 now would be the time to start. One option to consider get the '73 in 45 and shoot Classic Cowboy. Having said that, I feel the big advantage of shooting 38's is the expense. Even being conservative you will save 10% over 45's so if you spend the same amount to reload you will be able to practice that much more. More practice equals more competitive. IMHO the SASS RV's are worth the premium over the standard NRV's as they will always command a premium down the road. Is it worth $1000 (NRV's) or $1200(SASS RV's) to load one caliber, that's for you to answer. Hope this helps, Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Thanks for all the comments. I have been shooting the NMV in 45 for two years. Frankly, my current 45s are pretty slick. I shoot 200 grain bullets with a light load of TB. I don't perveive a real problem with muzzle flip. I realize that I will improve my times if I continue practicing my transitions. I am committed to buying a 73 to replace my EMF Hartford 92 clone. Last fall I was able to outrun the 92 and had to consciously slow down just a tad to make sure the rifle functioned properly. It is clear that I can gain time with a new rifle. I have been told by several people I shoot with that I would benefit by shooting a shortstroked 66 or 73. I was very impressed by the 73s I have cycled. Talking to some of the top SASS gunsmiths, they are unanimous that I should buy the 73 in 357/38, and not in 45. The lone voice for a 45 in 73 is one of the better pards I shoot with who is very competitive with his 45. Anyway my point is my only reason for acquiring new pistols in 38/357 is to make my reloading easier. I am trying to figure out if that is worth $600 a pistol. Hey Pardner - this place is full of cowboys who love to share their opinions, and their knowledge, and even their guns and booze. It's the best place on earth except at an actual match! It is possible to shoot past the stock 92's capability, likewise the stock 66 & 73's all get trigger jobs, short stroke kits and lots of enhancements done as well, in fact some smith's are selling the rifles already kitted up - fresh from the factory isn't good enough. Call Nate Kiowa Jones (Steve Young): NATE. about your model 92. He is the worlds expert on them - he's done my stainless for me and I'm fixing to get a rifle from him next. He can make the 92 run as fast as it can be done, and he's got a great video showing just how fast that is - just click on the title banner to see the little flash movie of how fast he cycles it. The mechanics of the gun aren't the limiting factor! Again - not trying to talk you out of a new rifle - Nate or others will sell you one of those in a heart beat, but a couple of hundred spent on your rifle will turn it into a fast shooting iron, and the other money can be spent of ammo and practice! I know I sound like a broken record - I keep saying don't buy this and don't buy that - but that's because I have also tried that trick of buying better performance - and I can tell you it's not there. Better performance comes from using hardware that is able to perform, and practicing the right things until you can do them well and on demand. Buy the pistols or the rifle because you want to buy them, not because you think they'll make a meaningful difference in your game. That's good enough reason as it is - and you won't be disappointed if it isn't the sudden jump to the winner's circle that way. Shadow Catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Daniels Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Howdy Bart, Looks like you and I joined SASS around the same time. I bought 2 Old Model Rugers Vaqueros right here off the SASS Wire that where new in the box and I love my pistols. I have the best time when I am at a shoot and I can not wait till I can go to EOT or another large event. I finally bought my 73 and even though I shoot well with ut I am going to have a short stroke added to it one of these days. I shot someones at the range and WOW what a difference. I still want to buy several cowboy guns just to have but for now I am happy with what I have and the best part is the people that are in SASS Cope Daniels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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