Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Navy Arms 1866 Winchester Carbine/Rifle Hammer Design


SPJackson
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have been very interested in the Navy Arms 1866 rifles and carbines because of their trigger safeties like the Winchester 1873. What I am confused by though is why all the 1866s I have seen from Navy arms have hammers that have what I would describe as milled or scooped-out sides. Here is an example

 

Is this an after market modification meant to aid in quick firing or was it sold this way? I'm not sure how it might effect performance besides allowing dirt to get inside. I suppose it may allow quicker firing since the hammer has less mass and so the hammer spring could move it faster, but I am not sure. I'm also curious if it could be replaced by a modern Uberti hammer. Can anyone enlighten me?

Edited by SPJackson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from the auction info:
"The rifle appears to have had an action job. The hammer and carrier have both been skeletonized to reduce weight and the carrier has been relieved at the rear for clearance of the bolt when a short stroke kit is added. The lever throw is quite a bit shorter than a stock rifle, so it has had a short stroke kit added as well. The trigger breaks cleanly. This rifle does not have a lever safety. We did not fire this rifle."

 

None of mine have skeletonized hammers, and only one has the lever safety.
I can't tell you about parts interchangeability between a 1970 model and more recent versions.

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I got my Navy Arms, it had what I felt was a butchered action.   It has the scooped out hammer you describe, the lever safety had been removed and the hammer fell noticeably slower than the stock Uberti Henry I own.

The action WAS very smooth and the trigger was nice.  I honestly don't know if it's short stroked, as I don't have another 66 to compare it too.  The problem was that the hammer fell so slowly that it would often not hit the firing pin hard enough to make the gun go bang.

So, I took the rifle to the Happy Trails and asked him if he could "return the rifle to more or less factory specs."

He replaced the lever safety and put in a heavier hammer spring so that it falls just as fast as my Henry, but didn't do anything else.  It's just as smooth and nice as when I got it, but now it goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

This is why I feel it is best to wary of "customized" cowboy guns on the used market.  They may be so "fine tuned" to the preferences of the owner that they will not work with the way you do things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many of the early "Short Frame" Navy Arms '66's came with the scooped out Hammer you're speaking of......

They are good guns and can be made to be competitive......

But, You cannot get parts for them and many smiths will not work on them !!!

Most parts from the later production '66's will not fit in the Early short frame 1866

 

My best advice if you plan to use it for CAS is to STAY AWAY from the short Frame Navy Arms 1866 !!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

 

My best advice if you plan to use it for CAS is to STAY AWAY from the short Frame Navy Arms 1866 !!!!

 


In all honesty, I can't say the same.  Other than the above mentioned initial problems, mine has worked just fine since I had them corrected.

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

That's Lead Dispenser's company...

 

(Oh, and they know their sh...stuff...)

 

Phantom

 

Huh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SPJackson said:

I have been very interested in the Navy Arms 1866 rifles and carbines because of their trigger safeties like the Winchester 1873. What I am confused by though is why all the 1866s I have seen from Navy arms have hammers that have what I would describe as milled or scooped-out sides. Here is an example

 

Is this an after market modification meant to aid in quick firing or was it sold this way? I'm not sure how it might effect performance besides allowing dirt to get inside. I suppose it may allow quicker firing since the hammer has less mass and so the hammer spring could move it faster, but I am not sure. I'm also curious if it could be replaced by a modern Uberti hammer. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

'66s do NOT have a safety.  You'll have to look long and hard to find one of those very early '66s with a lever safety behind the trigger.   When you do, please know that replacement parts will be almost impossible to find.  IF you were inclined to get it short-stroked, there are no kits that will fit it.  Although the rifle in the auction does NOT have a lever safety, earlier ones did.  I truly wish that Uberti had left the lever safety in the later iterations of the '66.   

 

This is a picture of one with a Lever Safety:

 

1703937438_66LeverSafety.thumb.JPG.a90fdd98dc35a0ce31e36fc7b64bf9f8.jpg.1a1fe469812072fbc8ce89f7e7d0e233.jpg

 

Edited by McCandless
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

This is from the auction info:
"The rifle appears to have had an action job. The hammer and carrier have both been skeletonized to reduce weight and the carrier has been relieved at the rear for clearance of the bolt when a short stroke kit is added. The lever throw is quite a bit shorter than a stock rifle, so it has had a short stroke kit added as well. The trigger breaks cleanly. This rifle does not have a lever safety. We did not fire this rifle."

 

None of mine have skeletonized hammers, and only one has the lever safety.
I can't tell you about parts interchangeability between a 1970 model and more recent versions.

Thank you. I wasn't sure how common the skeletonized hammer was or if it really aided in performance at all

 

4 hours ago, McCandless said:

 

'66s do NOT have a safety.  You'll have to look long and hard to find one of those very early '66s with a lever safety behind the trigger.   When you do, please know that replacement parts will be almost impossible to find.  IF you were inclined to get it short-stroked, there are no kits that will fit it.  Although the rifle in the auction does NOT have a lever safety, earlier ones did.  I truly wish that Uberti had left the lever safety in the later iterations of the '66.   

 

This is a picture of one with a Lever Safety:

 

1703937438_66LeverSafety.thumb.JPG.a90fdd98dc35a0ce31e36fc7b64bf9f8.jpg.1a1fe469812072fbc8ce89f7e7d0e233.jpg

 

I like the lever safety idea since it should aid in preventing out of battery fires when trying to quick fire the gun. I would like to get one at least to get a feel for how if performs different from a recent Uberti reproduction without it. I'm sure some would say to just get an 1873, but I like the brass of the '66, and the fact that the Navy Arms version is kind of a Franken-Gun by it having that 1873 style lever safety also gives it an appeal to me. I like uncommon designs 

 

4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:


In all honesty, I can't say the same.  Other than the above mentioned initial problems, mine has worked just fine since I had them corrected.

 

Huh?

I'm glad yours has worked out

 

I'm hoping if I do get one with a skeletonized hammer I can replace it with a modern Uberti with a least a little hand filing and sanding. I can imagine that a skeletonized one would make the action a bit easier to cock, but again I'm more worried about dirt getting in the action. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.