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Colt Pocket Navy(s) or Pocket Police as main match revolvers?


Blu Nos Dav

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Does anyone use, or know of others who use, Colt Pocket Navy(s) or Pocket Police as main match revolvers?

 

I own a second generation Colt Pocket Police and have access to a similar Pocket Navy revolver.  I am considering putting together a lightweight rig for my wife to shoot in "Frontierswoman" category.  My CPP shoots well - hits kinda high, but, I'm working on that solution ... but, I don't know how well pocket sized guns would hold up to SASS usage?

 

Thanx, Dave

 

 

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I use the 1862 Uberti Pocket Police. The 5 shot .36 built on the .31 frame. They work fine but the metal is really thin where the cap guard needs to be placed.

 

Slixshot nipples did fit on mine.

 

The problem now is that percussion caps are impossible to find. The only caps that work in my guns are Remington #10's. I don't expect to see any produced for at least 2 years.

 

Hogleg

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If a firearm qualifies as a SASS-legal "Pocket Pistol" it may not be used as a "Main Match" revolver:

 

Quote

A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. Colt Model 1877 DA revolvers are LEGAL for use as pocket pistols. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers.

SHB p.29

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Palewolf,

 

All second & third generation Colt 1862 Pocket Police & Pocket Navy revolvers have 5.5" barrels, and all of them are of .36 caliber.  While I have seen some Uberti/Cimarron/Taylor's 1862 Pocket Police & Pocket Navy models advertised with 4.5" barrels, none have "a barrel length of 4 inches or less".  So, I don't believe that any of these models could or should be restricted from use as main match revolvers, despite their original 19th century marketing by Samuel Colt as pocket pistols.

 

The 20th & 21st Century SASS usage of the phase "pocket pistol", seems to be an unfortunate coincidence.

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1862 Colt pocket pistols do NOT fit the description of pocket pistol by SASS standards, but they do fit the description for main match pistol.

 

Barrel is over 4"

.36 is a main match approved caliber for cap & ball

No swing out cylinder

Single action

 

They are basically a smaller framed 1860 Colt Army in the Navy chambering.

 

Hogleg

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I'd suggest getting conversion cylinders for both.   That'll turn them into .38 Long Colts.  Or maybe .38 Specials.   I am not sure.    Even if the they convert to the LC round, you can get brass by trimming Specials to length if you can't otherwise find it.

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Not for main match, my wife has second generation Colt 1862 Navies she shoots in Frontiersman. They are cool little guns. 

Tully 

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9 hours ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

Palewolf,

 

All second & third generation Colt 1862 Pocket Police & Pocket Navy revolvers have 5.5" barrels, and all of them are of .36 caliber.  While I have seen some Uberti/Cimarron/Taylor's 1862 Pocket Police & Pocket Navy models advertised with 4.5" barrels, none have "a barrel length of 4 inches or less".  So, I don't believe that any of these models could or should be restricted from use as main match revolvers, despite their original 19th century marketing by Samuel Colt as pocket pistols.

 

The 20th & 21st Century SASS usage of the phase "pocket pistol", seems to be an unfortunate coincidence.


...which is exactly why I posted the SASS definition to clarify that the revolvers mentioned in the OP do NOT qualify as "Pocket Pistols" due to barrel lengths over 4", regardless of any model designation as such.

 

There are shorter barrels available that would preclude their use as main match revolvers.

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Hogleg,

SliXshot nipples fit into my Colt Pocket Police just barely, and so far, I haven't needed to use cap guards.  Just as I was about to run out of caps, my LGS received a new supply of Remington #10's & #11's, plus some Winchester Magnum BP #11's.  They limit each customer to 400 caps total.  Back when I was using the smaller Colt factory "pocket sized" nipples, I found that CCI #10 caps, which are the smallest ones that I could find, worked best.  Now on the SliXshots, the Remington #10's work great.

 

H. K.,

Who makes conversion cylinders for these 5-shot pocket models?  Sounds interesting, but, I've only seen 6-shot conversion cylinders for full-size Navy & Army revolvers, etc.  Pocket model cylinders are almost 1/8th inch shorter than full-size cylinders, so, that might require stepping down to .38 Short Colt cartridges?  Loading old style heeled bullets would help with accuracy in our oversized ".36 caliber" barrels, which are actually .375" in diameter.  I've read that most of the original Navy cartridge conversions done back in the 1860's were designed for .38 Short Colt.

 

Tully,

Glad to hear that your wife likes her 1862 (Pocket) Navies.  

 

PaleWolf,

As always, thank you for your clarification of the rules & definitions.

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5 hours ago, Blu Nos Dav said:

H. K.,

Who makes conversion cylinders for these 5-shot pocket models?  Sounds interesting, but, I've only seen 6-shot conversion cylinders for full-size Navy & Army revolvers, etc.  Pocket model cylinders are almost 1/8th inch shorter than full-size cylinders, so, that might require stepping down to .38 Short Colt cartridges?  Loading old style heeled bullets would help with accuracy in our oversized ".36 caliber" barrels, which are actually .375" in diameter.  I've read that most of the original Navy cartridge conversions done back in the 1860's were designed for .38 Short Colt.

Get in touch with Gary Barnes over at Cartridge Conversions. He is a master at this sort of thing. I would imagine he could make them from scratch or using your cylinders and modifying them. He could line your barrel down to .357 and set it up for 38 Colt, maybe 38 Long Colt would fit. I don't know that any of this is possible but besides fitting cylinders, cutting loading ports, lining barrels, he makes things from scratch like a Thuer. Be prepared to spend some money, I promise it won't be cheap. But I also promise his work is well worth the price.

 

https://cartridgeconversion.com/

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Thanx for the info, Goode, I really do appreciate it!

 

But, I'm not really interested in permanently modifying any of my perfectly good cap & ball revolvers.  I think that self-contained metallic cartridges are a fad that will soon pass from our shooting world ;)  I might become interested in the type of conversion cylinders that Taylor's makes for full-size guns?  But then again, I have an assortment of spouts for my powder flasks, a snail-capper that holds 100 caps, and pockets that hold plenty of round balls, so, I can usually reload my handguns while carrying on a conversation.  And I never have to search around in the grass for my brass :P

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https://www.kirstkonverter.com/1851-61-colt-navy.html

When I reload .38 Short and Long Colt, I use a 150 grain .358" hollow based round nose bullet from Buffalo Arms.  I have had good luck with it in my Colt Lighting revolvers, a real Remington 58 factory conversion, a pair of converted Uberti 58s, and an M1894 Colt DA .38.  Some of these pistols have the older oversized bore, and some have the later tighter one.

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