Black Angus McPherson Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 I know that we poor unwashed civilians can't ship primers, and that the elite few that can ship primers must charge a Hazmat fee when doing so. There are similar restrictions to shipping live ammo. BUT, I seem to recall hearing some time back that primed brass is subject to neither the shipping restrictions or Hazmat fee. Is that correct? IF that is correct, there's your legal work around if you want to buy or sell primers. I started wondering about it because I've got some brass I've been planning on selling, and I think I've got some primers I'd be willing to part with. Add the desperation some folks are feeling for primers and maybe this could work out. Of course you've got to need the primed brass, and the labor involved would bump the cost but it's something to think about. So to you folks that know: Legal or not? Angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Don't take my word for this, I'm just thinking out loud. I think it is legal from a shipping standpoint (I think ground only and might be a labeling requirement). But another thing to investigate is the classification of primed cases... Cases you primed. Are you now in need of a license to be an ammo manufacturer/re-manufacturer? They are not finished cartridges, but they are a subassembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 And possible excise tax issues for manufacturers... From (with my bold): https://www.ficarettalegal.com/manufacturing-ammunition-in-compliance-with-federal-law/ Quote The term “manufacturer” is defined in 27 C.F.R. § 53.11 to include: [A]ny person who produces a taxable article from scrap, salvage or junk material, or from new or raw material, by processing, manipulating or changing the form of an article or by combining or assembling two or more articles. The term also includes a “producer” and an “importer.” Under certain circumstances, as where a person manufactures or produces a taxable article for another person who furnishes materials under an agreement whereby the person who furnished the materials retains title thereto and to the finished article, the person for whom the taxable article is manufactured or produced, and not the person who actually manufactures or produces it, will be considered the manufacturer. You need a lawyer to sort this out. But potentially being classified as a manufacturer is one of the reasons 'pards will not (ever never never) accept payment for personally loaded ammo given to a guest at a shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 How about percussion caps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: How about percussion caps? Private party can't ship'em either OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bearded Wonder Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 In short yes need a FFL 6 or 7, and would have to pay the 11% excise tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Angus McPherson Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 16 hours ago, John Kloehr said: And possible excise tax issues for manufacturers... From (with my bold): https://www.ficarettalegal.com/manufacturing-ammunition-in-compliance-with-federal-law/ You need a lawyer to sort this out. But potentially being classified as a manufacturer is one of the reasons 'pards will not (ever never never) accept payment for personally loaded ammo given to a guest at a shoot. So, the folks out there making and selling lead bullets need a manufacturing license to sell them? Isn't a lead bullet a "taxable article" produced by "changing the form" of material? Yep, a consult with an attorney, and probably a letter from the BATF, might be a good idea before selling primed brass. That's a lot of work and expense for selling, maybe, 1000 primed cases to help a pard out. Angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bearded Wonder Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said: So, the folks out there making and selling lead bullets need a manufacturing license to sell them? Isn't a lead bullet a "taxable article" produced by "changing the form" of material? Yep, a consult with an attorney, and probably a letter from the BATF, might be a good idea before selling primed brass. That's a lot of work and expense for selling, maybe, 1000 primed cases to help a pard out. Angus Yes to just cast bullets you have the get a license (FFL). When I got mine the ATF actually came to my place to interview me and walk around looking at everything. The ATF agent was actually fascinated with the magma bullet masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said: So, the folks out there making and selling lead bullets need a manufacturing license to sell them? Isn't a lead bullet a "taxable article" produced by "changing the form" of material? Yep, a consult with an attorney, and probably a letter from the BATF, might be a good idea before selling primed brass. That's a lot of work and expense for selling, maybe, 1000 primed cases to help a pard out. Angus Two kinds of tax. Sales tax if your state has it. The reference here is for Federal excise tax, for manufacturing ammunition. IANAL, but it reads to me as putting a primer in a case is a step involving two or more parts. A lead bullet would just be a single part... So a jacketed bullet would be two parts. Not saying it makes sense, just my non-lawyer read of the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Angus McPherson Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, The Bearded Wonder said: Yes to just cast bullets you have the get a license (FFL). When I got mine the ATF actually came to my place to interview me and walk around looking at everything. The ATF agent was actually fascinated with the magma bullet masters. Wow, just, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moustache Les Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The state department excise tax police will never, ever darken your door for selling such itty bitty quantities. You are not even on their radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Angus McPherson Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 I woke up this morning and realized I've still got some "What ifs". OK. Can't make, sell and ship primed cases without a manufacturers license. What if I bought some primed cases from a manufacturer and decided I didn't need them? Can I then ship them to another person without a license? Will it require a Hazmat fee? I'm not going to do it, I'm just curious about it. Angus Is this how Alpo got started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Shipping is a different question from manufacturing. Primed brass is not too difficult to ship. From https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/shipping-primed-brass.4007069/ Posting link both as credit to the source and as copy and paste of the actual text would be rude. Summarizing the linked info, ship UPS or Fedex ground, not USPS. Don't even think about USPS. Must be in proper packaging (see links in linked writeup, pretty easy). Must take to an actual shipping center, not your mom and pop UPS or FedEx store (biggest hassle). No hazmat or special fees. See the link for more complete info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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