Does anyone know how cloned phones work?

[Alpo]

I'm reading Rainbow Six.

 

It says that, in every big city, there are people that clone cell phones and sell them on the street corner. And that's how the spies communicate - with these cloned phones.

 

So, okay, someone clones my phone - 2125551234. They sell a copy to Secret Agent X9. Isn't that one still phone number 2125551234? When his contact tries to call him, doesn't my phone ring too?

 

If he wants to make a call, and I'm on the phone, will his phone work? If his contact calls him and I'm on the phone, does he get a busy signal? Would really suck for the fate of Communism to hinge on me not being on my phone at the pertinent moment.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

GOOGLE, to the rescue.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phones-cloned.htm

 

OLG

[Alpo]

Well, that answered one question but not all of them.

 

Analog phones, which were the norm when Rainbow was written, can be cloned, but digital can't be, so when they clone Smart phones all the time on NCIS or Castle, it's horse-kaka.

 

But it still did not say if when someone calls Agent X9, my phone rings, or if I'm on the phone, he can't use his.

 

'Cause it seems to me that a cloned phone would be like an extension.

[Ruff]

Alpo,

 

Haven't watched NCIS or Castle in awhile, but I used to work for a major cell phone company. If by smart phone you are talking GSM, are they cloning them or changing the SIM card info? The SIM card is what routes the phone calls to a certain phone, the change is done by the phone company and the card, at least when I was doing it had a 18 digit number.

[Alpo]

Don't know what a GSM is.

 

I used to have a flip phone, with actual push buttons on it. I refer to that as a dumb phone. I now have something with a piece of glass on the front and a computer built in, that I touch and swipe and twirl and all kinds of miraculous things happen. I call this a smart phone.

 

As to the show, Castle, the other night. A boy was kidnapped and the kidnappers gave his father a phone - they would communicate with him on it. The cops tell the father, "We cloned your phone, so now we'll be able to hear whatever they tell you."

 

NCIS, a time or two, they've put this little thingy up next to another phone (they used to do this all the time on Leverage), and, "Okay, we cloned his phone." They didn't seem to do anything - just get the whizbang up next to the wanted phone, and when they were close enough, the whizbang cloned the other phone. Like, "We've got an app for phone cloning".

 

From the way they are talking about it on TV shows, they are basically bugging the phone. They are copying it, so they can be somewhere else and see and hear whatever he does on his phone.

 

That does not seem to be what they were talking about with the "cloning phones and selling them on the street corner".

 

So - I'm confused.

 

What else is new?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

There is a Wikipedia article on phone cloning that indicates that even GSM phones can be cloned. Whether or not it is accurate, I don't know.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I hear they work very well. If you're a criminal.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Do they work well? My lawn needs mowing.

[Ruff]

Marshal Mo Hare,

 

My time with the cell phone company was 13 years ago. At that time there was a standing industry prize of 2.5 million to the person/persons who could clone a GSM and have it work more than once. As far as I know the record was 46 seconds before the system burned out the card.

 

Alpo,

 

Sounds like they are tapping the phone, but Hollywierd and writers know as much about tech as they do guns. Or they ignore they facts because their idea looks better on film.

[Shorty Jack Hammer]

opps

[Shorty Jack Hammer]

Don't know what a GSM is.

 

I used to have a flip phone, with actual push buttons on it. I refer to that as a dumb phone. I now have something with a piece of glass on the front and a computer built in, that I touch and swipe and twirl and all kinds of miraculous things happen. I call this a smart phone.

 

As to the show, Castle, the other night. A boy was kidnapped and the kidnappers gave his father a phone - they would communicate with him on it. The cops tell the father, "We cloned your phone, so now we'll be able to hear whatever they tell you."

 

NCIS, a time or two, they've put this little thingy up next to another phone (they used to do this all the time on Leverage), and, "Okay, we cloned his phone." They didn't seem to do anything - just get the whizbang up next to the wanted phone, and when they were close enough, the whizbang cloned the other phone. Like, "We've got an app for phone cloning".

 

From the way they are talking about it on TV shows, they are basically bugging the phone. They are copying it, so they can be somewhere else and see and hear whatever he does on his phone.

 

That does not seem to be what they were talking about with the "cloning phones and selling them on the street corner".

 

So - I'm confused.

 

What else is new?

Yep, Phone cloning as referred to on those TV shows means that the cloned phone receives all the same calls and text messages as the original. This enables the police to intercept or "tap" a line like in the "old days" with land lines. Obviously it requires a warrant. I don't know if there is a super cool device that they hold up to do it. I know our detectives have done it, but I don't think its as easy as having an app.

 

On a side note, I cannot even listen in on a conversation on another line, say on a second phone on your house land line, even with your permission without a warrant. I can however do what's called "phone tipping" which means I listen to the exact same phone you are using because you "tip" it away from your ear ha ha.

 

The phone cloning in the linked article is how people steal your account use. I suppose in the spy books that is how they can have the use of a cellphone the is untraceable back to the spy him/herself.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

From what I have read, with GSMs it is only possible if the clone is using the same cell tower. There are so may towers in Manhattan, I think it is unlikely to use it unless the phone is stationary.

[Alpo]

>On a side note, I cannot even listen in on a conversation on another line, say on a second phone on your house land line, even with your permission without a warrant. I can however do what's called "phone tipping" which means I listen to the exact same phone you are using because you "tip" it away from your ear ha ha. <

 

Lemme see if I'm understanding you correctly.

 

TV show/,movie where child is kidnapped. Parent is listening to kidnapper on landline, and FBI is also listening to kidnapper on landline extension.

 

They need a warrant for that?

[Shorty Jack Hammer]

>On a side note, I cannot even listen in on a conversation on another line, say on a second phone on your house land line, even with your permission without a warrant. I can however do what's called "phone tipping" which means I listen to the exact same phone you are using because you "tip" it away from your ear ha ha. <

 

Lemme see if I'm understanding you correctly.

 

TV show/,movie where child is kidnapped. Parent is listening to kidnapper on landline, and FBI is also listening to kidnapper on landline extension.

 

They need a warrant for that?

Yes, but since that would be considered emergent for obvious reasons, it would be very quick to get, and they could probably get the warrant afterwards. The risk would be that if for some strange reason the warrant was denied (not likely) any evidence gathered from the warrantless listening could get tossed in court later and affect a conviction. For the FBI they'd probably get away with it since the feds don't seem to need a warrant for half the stuff they do.

 

On another but more related side note lets say you were carjacked/kidnapped and tied up in your trunk but we knew you had your cellphone. We can "ping" your phone in order to find you and your kidnapper, but I would need a warrant to ping your phone. That however is definitely covered by the emergency exception but a post facto warrant has to be applied for within 24 hours. It's all sooooo much fun, but In the big constitutional picture its for the best.

[Alpo]

Thanks, Ranger. THAT I did not know.

[JudgeBagodonuts]

When they talk about "cloning" a smartphone, they are actually talking about putting an app onto the phone that forwards everything you do on the phone to another phone. It's like software for the pc that allows you to remotely use it.

 

The traditional "cloning" refers to making 2 phones have the same id so that both phones could use one account. That's not what is happening on Castle and NCIS.