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Bart Solo

What Is SASS Doing To Promote Our Game Among The Over 55 crowd?

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Hello Tejano,

 

Welcome to the family!

 

Please don't feel like you have to answer every question directed at you. Especially, if you feel the question is offensive or sarcastic.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who barely remembers 30" Mo

 

PS I didn't find this beloved sport until I was fifty. I so wish I'd discovered it at your age! So much fun missed.

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Hi Ali, I didn't intend to come across sarcastic in any way, but you will note the way he addressed me FIRST. As when he stated" Stop thinking you know everything about my generation". I merely pointed out that IF he was the average 30 something year old, CAS wouldn't have a membership issue with the lack of younger shooters and unfortunetly he isn't the Norm as the numbers of new shooters entering the other Shooting Sports is greater overall vs CAS.

 

And as someone who shoots other disciplines and has been a Youth Shotgun instructor for some years now, I see the lack of interest first hand.

 

The "hot" new sports are the "tacticool" ones right now. Without destroying the very core of CAS I don't see a way to compete with them...

 

PS as noted I DID discover this sport at 35...20 years ago...

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It is a big deal...Maybe you should stop trying to point out how different our generations are and find out what common ground we have.

Ok, no problem

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I hope you all don't think I'm upset. I'm not, I love my local clubs and I always have a blast shooting.

 

I just get frustrated with some of the opinions and statements made about my peer group...

 

I know I'm not the majority but let's face it, SASS isn't a sport for the majority, it is a sport for those of us passionate about the history of the west. I just want you all to see that the passion can be found in the younger generations.

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I guess when the cowboy shows left the air waves depended on where you grew up. I remember watching wagon train before dinner at my grandmothers house while visiting in the summer well past Elvis death in the 70s. It came on after the soaps and before the news. I think the Virginian was also on. Then at my other grandparents there were the Saturday early morning western movies same on Sunday morning. Part of this was populated by a local amusement park up in Boone nc call tweetsie rr and its hero Fred Kirby. We went many times during my childhood. To experience the train robbery Indian attacks etc.

 

I'm 52 but not in the best physical condition because of several failed back surgeries and the 2012 accident I'm barely able to walk. But I am able and shoot the best I can for the amount of pain I'm in. Tenajo how about getting with a group of CAS shooters to supply everything for a group og 30yos 3 gun shooters have a traing day then have a match where each youngster is paired with a mentor for lack of a better word. Sponsor might be it. And go have fun this one on one bonding might be what is needed to pull these two groups together and then if the young guys wish to do the right thing you host the older group and write stages similar to the sass stages that don't require the crawling and stuff the older shooter would have trouble with. It the peanut butter vs chocolate thing. Keep us posted I have guns for the three gun but not any shoots in town open to me. I was a bad boy early on and the clique that ran the local club rubbed me wrong and I was too vocal about it. I now pay for it. The next club is in las cruces which is 60 miles away but the range is closer to 100. I try to shoot CAS there every couple of months. I really should relocate if I want to shoot more.

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I hope you all don't think I'm upset. I'm not, I love my local clubs and I always have a blast shooting.

 

I just get frustrated with some of the opinions and statements made about my peer group...

 

I know I'm not the majority but let's face it, SASS isn't a sport for the majority, it is a sport for those of us passionate about the history of the west. I just want you all to see that the passion can be found in the younger generations.

The joy of the internet is we can't see the posters expressions so we tend to read more into these posts. You DID sound upset. I may have sounded Sarcastic. Remember too The Wire is just a sounding board and doesn't really reflect CAS as a whole in any event.

 

I wish you WERE the Majority. Then the numbers problem in CAS would go away! But you must realize that for many, too many, CAS/SASS is NOT about a love of the Old West, but a Competition and the Clothing is just a Hinderance to them. The Wire is full of those complaints.

 

I posted how the Sport has changed for me from what originally brought me here. Those days are gone and I don't think they are coming back, I wish they would...

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Snake, I think you might be hanging with the wrong crowd. I've shoot with those type also but at most of the shoots I make it the dress far exceeds the minimum. Even at the monthly matches. Garrison Joe is a true competitor but he could pass for cc no matter what category he's shooting. Capt balor is another shooter who dresses the part. I'm sorry I'm failing to think of some of the others who are out there to have fun first. But there out there.

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Oh, don't get me wrong Blackey there are still people like you and Garrison Joe. I still dress period regardless and the day I can't I will stop shooting CAS.

 

Our Club for the long time now actually allows people to request who they shoot with and that has evolved into the "Gamers" posse and the "Party" posse. Seems to work other then when the Faster shooting Gamers skip ahead of our stage, finish shooting and are actually packing up and leaving while we (who get "stuck with" the new shooters as well) are still shooting! That DOES get annoying...

 

Shooting tomorrow for the first time since the Bako Heat Started...will let you know how it goes...

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What to do? Have to change the image from cowboy (or in addition to) to something more modern...Steampunk is one, Star Wars could be another. Probable have to modify the name of the sport tooo.

 

Change the image is my thought and don;t shoot the messanger.

 

I spend quite a bit of time coaching High School Rodeo and College Rodeo competitors, so even though I'm in my 30's, I still spend time enough with 'youngsters' (recognizing that I'm wet behind the ears compared to most of you old farts! :P ) that I'm familiar with what they consider "cool".

 

Oddly enough, the late 80's/early 90's western styling has been making a resurgence among the younger 'western culture' folks, I haven't seen this many Garth Brooks shirts running around for 20yrs!!! It's their version of "retro," just like a bunch of us wearing throwback bellbottoms when I was in college.

 

I can tend to agree with this change of image, but I don't think it has to go as far as to say Star Wars is the answer (although I'm a child of the 80's and a HUGE Star Wars fan).

 

WHAT I HAVE SEEN FOR TRENDS AMONG TEEN TO '30 SOMETHINGS' IN WESTERN CULTURE!!!

 

Let me start by saying I'm focusing on the teens to 30-somethings because I think that the 30-somethings are the age group that mark the cut-off in popularity of TV Westerns, and of course, the ages YOUNGER than that have less exposure still. This span, however, will be the future of CAS/SASS, and I believe something should be done to bring them into the sport before they turn 55.

 

Anti-hero Cowboys and westerns are still famous/popular. Across the teen to 30-something age span, anti-hero movies are still popular just like when I first watched them 20yrs ago - the Good the Bad and the Ugly, The quick and the dead, True Grit, Young Guns, 3:10 to Yuma, American Outlaws, Hidalgo, Tombstone etc etc. These movies were and ARE favorites of me and my friends (the 30-somethings), and I can't tell you how many times I've re-watched those same movies with the high school and college kids after practices while my wife cooked supper for them. Even kids 10 and 15yrs my junior can recite lines along with the movie!!! Some John Wayne movies are more or less popular than others, but it's still common perception that "John Wayne is a Certified Bada$$", there are even ironic comedy pictures online all over (meme's if you're familiar with the term) that portray John Wayne raising a bottle of whiskey with the caption "Chuck Norris? Never heard of her!".

 

Cowboys in White Hats are lame. While the non-traditional "good guy" is still enjoying fame, the All-American, Role-Model, White-Hat, Fighting Evil hero isn't fairing well. Young people don't want to be told "here is your hero, isn't he swell?", they want someone with flaws and that makes mistakes - like they do - but that still has the redeeming quality of a strong moral character when push comes to shove - like they HOPE they do. America's youths today don't care for a moral lesson or a good role model in their heroes. They want "real people" that are rough around the edges but still have good in them. The "hero by design" isn't popular anymore. This is universal across all genre's of Hollywood when you look at the popularity of say the "Captain America" movies vs. the "Ironman" movies. "Wolverine" stood out as THE HERO (100% anti-hero) in the X-men franchise. Similarly, if you look at the relative success of the new Lone Ranger as compared to the new True Grit. That 15-35yr old demographic that I'm talking about, many of them have no idea who Matt Dillon is or only remember Bonanza and Gunsmoke as something that their Grandpa watched (James Arness who? or Didn't Roy Rogers ride Silver?). BUT, they know about Josey Wales and Rooster Cogburn, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard kids quoting "I'm your Huckleberry" or "skin that smoke wagon and go to work!". Heck, almost every high school and college rodeo team I've been exposed to in the last decade has had a kid with the nickname "Dirty Steve" - whether his real name was Steve or not! The Lone Ranger was designed to be a hero, so he doesn't come off these days as "authentic" - much like the comedy of Matt Damon's portrayal of the Texas Ranger in the new True Grit, mocking the "I'm a clean cut cowboy hero" ideology. Not that it's a western, but when you look at Charles Ingalls in Little House, he was designed to be a GREAT role model and a hard working man, but he's certainly not a popular modern hero - and you could tell that by the way the scripting changed in later seasons where he'd end up in fights more often to stand up for what's right, rather than encouraging the girls to turn the other cheek. Rooster was never intent on being a hero. The Preacher never intended to be a hero. Jesse James and Billy the Kid were obviously not designed to be heroes. Wyatt Earp had a dark streak a mile wide. BUT THEY'RE AS POPULAR AS EVER!!!

 

B-Westerns through 50's styles are NOT cool anymore. While the "flapper girls" of the 20's clear up to the poodle skirts of the 50's, and even "steam punk" styling might have an avid following among certain "geek chic" youth, Western Culture Youth have abandoned all things "nickel plated or fringed" (so to speak). In line with the White Hat upstanding cowboy's fall from grace, the style that accompanied those eras are just dead. Rodeo Rough stock riders in the early 2000's would wear the retro 'piped and yoked' shirts to compete in, or to the after party at the bar to pick up buckle bunnies, but mostly because we're stocky built guys so the yokes fit our form well, and we have a flair for something that looks different, but nobody would get caught dead in a fringed shirt unless they were wearing it ironically. "Buckaroo" is almost an insult these days.

 

Heroes of men, not heroes of boys: Maybe what sums that all up is the mental image of a Roy Rogers fan (which I consider myself a fan of both) is a boy sitting in a red cowboy hat with white buckstitched trim in front of a console TV, whereas the image of a Rooster Cogburn fan is a man that wants to share a bottle of whiskey with him. Singing and rope tricks just don't come off as "manly" to most of today's young cowboys.

 

Historical cowboys are still famous/popular. Real life historical figures like Jesse James, Wyatt Earp, Bill Cody, Annie Oakley, Billy the Kid, the Dalton Gang, Doc Holliday, Bat Masterson, etc are all still popular - because they were real people with amazing stories.

 

Why do I mention those things? Because "Cowboys are still cool" so SASS still has a powerful angle to tap into the younger demographics. But the marketing can't be tied to the TV western cowboy heroes of the past that are perceived to be pretend cowboys that 'fought for justice and stood up for the little guy' or that sang a song about life on the prairie as he rode off into the sunset. The image of the real cowboy - a gritty, morally apt, but often with a sordid past anti-hero that's good with a gun, good with a horse, and swears a few too many times in a casual conversation is still enjoying popularity.

 

In other action shooting sports, the mood that is conveyed is typically very different than what I've experienced in SASS. While I'm not one that buys into "we need to practice so we can defend our home when China invades," or "in case of the zombie apocalypse," I still don't think shooting sports should ever be watered down into something like a shooting gallery at a carnival. 3 gun competitions, IDPA/IPSC, and other action shooting sports often have a very true-to-life tone that this is a game, but if it came down to it, this could save your life. I think the realism is sucked out of SASS, like the realism that's sucked out of the "singing and dancing white hat pretend heroes".

 

So I've said all of that (and I appreciate and applaud anyone that took the time to read all of it!) to get to this point - when a young shooter shows up and they see folks pretending "singing and dancing white hat pretend heroes," rather than Rooster Cogburn or Josey Wales or Wyatt Earp or Billy the Kid, it's really easy to turn them off.

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I wonder just how many Cowboy "games" there are for Xbox, PlayStation, and wherever other type of video game toy is out there.

 

I do not see cowboy and indian video games on the hot list either

 

 

 

Red Dead Revolver was a very hot Xbox and Playstation game in the 2000's, and Red Dead Redemption, the current platform sequel, did very well also. Both of these were popular even for the NON-western culture crowd. My brother-in-law, a computer geek by profession and passion and his son, that has never seen a living horse in person, play Red Dead Redeption together all the time.

 

Tejano, as part of the mainstream of popular culture, Westerns aren't in it. It WAS when I was a kid. The numbers of Westerns in the 50s and 60s was staggering, the Top Rated Shows were shows like Bonanza. The Kids didn't play Video Games, we pretended we were Daniel Boone, Jim West or Little Joe.

 

So ask yourself,

 

How many current Western TV Shows are on now?

 

Name the last big Name Western Movie Picture you saw in the Theatre?

 

How many of the kids you grew up with or any of your current Peers are into Western History or Culture?

 

Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, The Fast and the Furious Series, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Lady GaGa , Twittering and Texting, those are the Cultural Influences now...

 

 

Plenty of kids in the Midwest grow up in "western culture" everyday. Western culture is still alive and well, and as my post above mentions, it's very popular if the subject matter is right.

 

EDIT: I just checked - "Red Dead Redemption", a western themed video game which was released in 2010 received 95% and 96% ratings on it's two game console platforms, and received 9.5 to 10 out of 10 scores at a dozen or so game review sites and magazines. Within the first 18mos, it sold over 12.5million copies. For context, the last few installations of "Madden NFL" have only ranked around 8-9/10 in similar reviews, and the Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 sold 26million copies in its first two years. So in competitive market terms, Red Dead Redemption has done incredibly well, and is undeniably a contender as one of the 'platform video games' even in current culture.

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I hope you all don't think I'm upset. I'm not, I love my local clubs and I always have a blast shooting.

 

I just get frustrated with some of the opinions and statements made about my peer group...

 

I know I'm not the majority but let's face it, SASS isn't a sport for the majority, it is a sport for those of us passionate about the history of the west. I just want you all to see that the passion can be found in the younger generations.

I'm 32. I come from a different back ground but share a lot with you.

 

I don't do video games or computer stuff. I haven't been to a movie in years.

 

Around this area growing up i was the odd duck because i liked fast and the furious almost as much as John Wayne movies.

 

The few people my age that i hang out with laugh at the za bs going on.

 

We grew up hunting, fishing and drifting cars in the snow and back country roads way before tokyo drift came out.

 

A little about my history.

 

I started almost three years and most of the time i am the only one my age shooting. Its hard to relate at time when people are shooting the breeze after a match. Some topics everybody can agree with, some not. some i just listen and try to learn because i haven't been the places, or had the experiences.

 

I choose to drive $1000 beater cars because I'd rather use my money on this hobby.

 

My wife and I have two young children, and neither of us have high paying jobs. So, money isn't exactly in abundance. However we both like most of the people we have meet in this hobby, and it's something we can enjoy doing as a family. To us it's worth it.

 

It is frustrating at times when we get judged by or age and not our actions. When you burn down a non stand and deliver stage in the 15-17 second range it's because of practice, talent or dedication, not just young legs. Ok sometimes is luck too.

 

I came into this knowing nothing about sass, so i chose to dive in. Now I'm on the board for or state match, and trying to help anywhere i can.

 

There is a lot of bad things said about our age group. I will not talk till I'm blue in the face about it. I'd rather go out and do my best to change the perception by hard work and effort.

 

A thing to remember. Each generation has different priorities. Some grew up in the muscle car age, others flower power, others westerns on tv. To those that dont understand the video game era, just remember that we dont understand what was.so terrific about woodstock, polyester clothes, bee hive haircuts, cb radios, or things like that. I think that no matter how vastly different we are , it is great that we can all find a hobby we can enjoy together.

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Well said Evil Dogooder

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Wow, my comments are not ment to be a competition in their own right

A video-cowboy game in 2000 was 14 years ago etc. smile smile smile

 

I am talking about %'s

A very high percentage of videos games now are based upon black guns etc

A very high percentage of the players of those games are probably younger than my 60 years

Watching westerns like the great tombstone movie over and over is nothing like watching literally - thousands of different westerns, covering 5 + decades (for many) including black and white ones, and wow, the tv show gun smoke stayed on the air for 20 years

This is not about who has seen the most, it's more about the influences that may help many gravitate to cowboy action shooting

 

Yes we have serious 30 + - aged shooters, and I welcome them all aboard, I have tried fully sponsoring folks in that age group, they were super excited at first to have the opportunity, but it did not take long and they were tired of getting up early to shoot real stuff after staying up all night playing black gun videos with folks they don't even know all over the country, and in climate controlled conditions sitting in comfortable chairs. No counting, no shagging brass, no cleaning equipment etc

 

That type of entertainment is real competition to us maintaining our shooting numbers

 

Every serious SASS. Shooter I know tries to introduce SASS TO EVERY AGE group that they can,

so that is common ground to all serious SASS shooter, showing up at the range in person etc

 

Hec I will admit that my age and higher, many choose the luxury of staying home

SASStake a combined effort of a ratio of things to happen

"Time-energy-funding"

I not only use all three, I share all three when I can in order to introduce all ages to what it is that we do

 

Hec, I was 30, 30 years ago, and that really means nothing Cept for math

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I spend quite a bit of time coaching High School Rodeo and College Rodeo competitors, so even though I'm in my 30's, I still spend time enough with 'youngsters' (recognizing that I'm wet behind the ears compared to most of you old farts! :P ) that I'm familiar with what they consider "cool".

 

Oddly enough, the late 80's/early 90's western styling has been making a resurgence among the younger 'western culture' folks, I haven't seen this many Garth Brooks shirts running around for 20yrs!!! It's their version of "retro," just like a bunch of us wearing throwback bellbottoms when I was in college.

The Dakota Clay,

Ya spent some time and a lot of effort in this post and I appreciate your thoughts.

 

I picked up that you are associated with high school and college rodeos and that is a perfect match for potential new members.

 

I have read your post a couple times and I kinda get what you don't like about the present setup and image of SASS, but I haven't figured out what needs to change (image, new hero, different costuming?) to actually draw in the 15-30something age group AND keep the ol farts happy as well.

 

You made a point about watering down the shooting to where there is no practical use for the skills acquired in SASS. There is some truth to that, but drawing firearm, acquiring sight picture, squeezing the trigger and movement to next target is transferable to other shooting venues.. Plus, just good safe gun handling skills. I have heard that SASS guns are specific to the game and of little use for anything else. I can not argue with that. i personally do not use my SASS guns for anything else. For serious work, I turn to my black guns or hunting guns. But you know what? Guns are tools and each tool is good for what it was intended to do. A hammer is a hammer and if you need a big/small one, you better have both or several. Same with screwdrivers. I am fortunate, I have an adequate gun tool box.

 

Anyway, keep thinking and keep providing us with more ideas on how to bring in the 30 something folks.

 

PS, Buckaroo is a very young male age catagory in SASS and you don't fit there. You are an ol fart in comparison. <smile>

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If someone were to breach my house

I feel that the use and experience of my cowboy Guns would rival the use of my black guns

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If someone were to breach my house

I feel that the use and experience of my cowboy Guns would rival the use of my black guns

If someone had broken into my house, when I was home alone, before I learned to shoot CAS guns, I'd be dead. Now, I have a chance of survival and I've never shot anything newer than a model '97 SG 1911 pistol.

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If someone were to breach my house

I feel that the use and experience of my cowboy Guns would rival the use of my black guns

Care to elaborate on that thought?

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I'm 32. I come from a different back ground but share a lot with you.

 

I don't do video games or computer stuff. I haven't been to a movie in years.

 

Around this area growing up i was the odd duck because i liked fast and the furious almost as much as John Wayne movies.

 

The few people my age that i hang out with laugh at the za bs going on.

 

We grew up hunting, fishing and drifting cars in the snow and back country roads way before tokyo drift came out.

 

A little about my history.

 

I started almost three years and most of the time i am the only one my age shooting. Its hard to relate at time when people are shooting the breeze after a match. Some topics everybody can agree with, some not. some i just listen and try to learn because i haven't been the places, or had the experiences.

 

I choose to drive $1000 beater cars because I'd rather use my money on this hobby.

 

My wife and I have two young children, and neither of us have high paying jobs. So, money isn't exactly in abundance. However we both like most of the people we have meet in this hobby, and it's something we can enjoy doing as a family. To us it's worth it.

 

It is frustrating at times when we get judged by or age and not our actions. When you burn down a non stand and deliver stage in the 15-17 second range it's because of practice, talent or dedication, not just young legs. Ok sometimes is luck too.

 

I came into this knowing nothing about sass, so i chose to dive in. Now I'm on the board for or state match, and trying to help anywhere i can.

 

There is a lot of bad things said about our age group. I will not talk till I'm blue in the face about it. I'd rather go out and do my best to change the perception by hard work and effort.

 

A thing to remember. Each generation has different priorities. Some grew up in the muscle car age, others flower power, others westerns on tv. To those that dont understand the video game era, just remember that we dont understand what was.so terrific about woodstock, polyester clothes, bee hive haircuts, cb radios, or things like that. I think that no matter how vastly different we are , it is great that we can all find a hobby we can enjoy together.

Evil,

 

I judge a person by the persons action, values and etc. , not his age.

 

Way back when, I had a job working with much older folks. I had more in common with their grand kids than those co workers. I can relate to what you are saying. BTW, I had a family at that time.

 

Yes, training, skill, experience and luck really are the backbone in ripping off a clean 17second stage, but, there is a huge benefit of being flight of foot that youth gives you over being usually slower and older. I have witnessed, and chased shooters that I was equivalent to in the shooting skills, but they could just get to position 2 & 3 of the stage 2 seconds faster. When you combine all of that (shooting skills, experience and fast of foot & luck) you get a world champion.

 

Still, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter and looking forward to more of your post.

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...

There is a lot of bad things said about our age group. I will not talk till I'm blue in the face about it. I'd rather go out and do my best to change the perception by hard work and effort.

 

...

Hi Evil,

 

You sound like someone worth knowing. I'm so glad that you found SASS. I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by the "bad things said about" your age group. I try to take individuals as I see them and not stereotype or let others' opinions of them color mine...

 

Allie Mo

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Yes, training, skill, experience and luck really are the backbone in ripping off a clean 17second stage, but, there is a huge benefit of being flight of foot that youth gives you over being usually slower and older. I have witnessed, and chased shooters that I was equivalent to in the shooting skills, but they could just get to position 2 & 3 of the stage 2 seconds faster. When you combine all of that (shooting skills, experience and fast of foot & luck) you get a world champion.

 

Still, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter and looking forward to more of your post.

 

I totally agree that fleet foot speed helps. When i started i could beat dang near anyone i shot with from point a to b but I'd still struggle with getting under fifty seconds a stage . Even until this spring I'd rarely get into the low twenties. What pushed me into the teens was learning. I still don't practice much with actual shooting, but i think more. How am i going to shoot a stage.where can i shave seconds. How did the fast shooters do it. Good. Now how can i do it like them.

I've been blessed to have been helped along by some incredible shooters. In my home club i get to shoot with Amen Straight, timberjack Thomson, and my gf wizard jackpine bill (who had thirty some years on me and continues to spank my butt). Then you throw in johnny otter from sd. Top it all off with being able to watch straight arrow, carty, and the amazing duece at gunsmoke every year, well who ask for more. I watch them and dissect their stages. How did they place their guns,feet where did they gain time not on their guns. Then lastly i watch how they prepare.

One of the most important things i learned from them, especially jack pine bill, is foot speed is the last part of the equation for a fast stage. The mental game is by far the most important thing. Yeah i can rip off a stage in 17 seconds but the lax focus i have on the fourth pistol shot, or not watching my shells into my sxs that caused a fumble, well that turned it into a 22 second stage.

 

Sorry this it's rather long winded and off topic.

 

I guess the most important thing about getting new shooters and retaining old ones is include everyone.

Make everybody feel special!

 

Maybe that silver senior who just shot an 90 second stage had one of the smoothest transitions you've ever seen. Go up to him and say so. Ask him how he came up with it.

 

Maybe that buckerette came up with a new costume that took time and effort. Compliment her on it.

 

Maybe that cap and ball shooter made more smoke than a burning tire. Ask him about his loads.

 

Maybe that new shooter is having a bad day. don't just go up and say, way to tough it out. Find something they did right and compliment them on it. You can learn things from the slowest shooters as well as the fastest.

 

Most of all be sincere. If they did something wrong, quietly pull then aside. Ask if it would be alright if you gave them a different way to try something. Don't tell them they did it wrong and this is how to do it right. Offer an alternative way to do it and explain yourself. Then let them choose and learn if that way is faster for them.

There are some things i do that is incredibly wrong, but i do them smooth and very fast. It works for me.

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Care to elaborate on that thought?

Due to sending thousands and thousands and thousands of CAS bullets down range, since 1997

many or most of those rounds were at like distance of inside my house, done around and through facade walls, windows etc

I know those guns, I know the feel of their actions in the (dark) dark, because I have handled them so much

My loads are stout enough to in flick, oh crap, let's get out of here, I even have a SxS at the ready with real black powder loads at the ready, just imagine if you will

Sneaking into or door kicking a fellows house, then after ignoring the "ya better leave right now" verbal warning

Suppose you continue on, you and your wing man, all of a sudden a blast of 12 gauge black powder is sent in your direction

The flame ought to sear any wounds incurred

At that time you can choose to advance or retreat, thinking that fellow must have a flame thrower

 

I have black guns also, I have not shot hundreds of thousands of rounds through them and besides that

I don't want to breach things far enough to endanger my neighbors

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I've noticed my grouping on paper is much tighter since I've started CAS. My club tends to be one that uses more distant and smaller targets than others, I'm told, so that probably helps.

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I think we need to ask the question "What are WE doing to promote the sport"? The sport is what we make it and for it to grow, it is up to all of us. Ask yourself if you have brought anyone to the sport lately....I feel that with Misty Mooshine at the helm that we could not be in better hands. That being said, we all need to continue to promote the sport we love.and not expect someone else to do it.

 

How do we do that? By letting people see our passion and by getting them to come out to a shoot and see what is going on. We had a family of four at the shoot yesterday and they were taken into the fold by several of the shooters and in no time they felt a part of the action. One of the shooters had them at a bay with all of them shooting.

 

We can set back and ask what others are doing, but there are a lot of us working it from another angle. It's all good....but we need to continue inviting visitors to our shoots. Remember your first time at a shoot? We just have to get them there....

 

Just my too scents.

 

KK

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Hi Folks,

 

I really like to go out to lunch in costume after a match. I always encounter someone who is curious about what I've been doing. Yesterday, I even got my photo taken. :blush: As I walked into the National Hotel Bar, a lady complimented me on my outfit. I also ran into a couple who are into mounted shooting and already knew about SASS.

 

The best part was the two gentlemen who sat next to me. Both were local to my area and both already have some SASS-legal guns and dress cowboy on a regular basis. They asked lots of questions. I gave them a link to our local website, which has links to SASS among other related things, and think they may show up at the range. :)

 

Regards,

 

Allie "the recruiter" ;) Mo

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Yes I have brought new to the CAS range, and I never cared about what generation they are from

 

I stop at lowes or Home Depot on the way home from shoots still dress, yes folks will stop and ask

It's great

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Alllie, Mike: That is a lot of fun. ....and unlike another post that hinted that "costumes" were a hindrance to our growth, I agree with you both that they are a means to an end.

 

Most of us are reliving our youth, some of us are experiencing it for the first time....matters not.....it's not unusual for our closets to be overtaken by SASS clothing...lol.

 

KK

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Due to sending thousands and thousands and thousands of CAS bullets down range, since 1997

many or most of those rounds were at like distance of inside my house, done around and through facade walls, windows etc

I know those guns, I know the feel of their actions in the (dark) dark, because I have handled them so much

My loads are stout enough to in flick, oh crap, let's get out of here, I even have a SxS at the ready with real black powder loads at the ready, just imagine if you will

Sneaking into or door kicking a fellows house, then after ignoring the "ya better leave right now" verbal warning

Suppose you continue on, you and your wing man, all of a sudden a blast of 12 gauge black powder is sent in your direction

The flame ought to sear any wounds incurred

At that time you can choose to advance or retreat, thinking that fellow must have a flame thrower

 

I have black guns also, I have not shot hundreds of thousands of rounds through them and besides that

I don't want to breach things far enough to endanger my neighbors

You keep both SASS SA revolvers loaded and ready for your Personal Protection house guns, loaded with your normal SASS loads? If so, what load are you using. Just curious, I may want to duplicate. A black gun for out of house protection?

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I totally agree that fleet foot speed helps. When i started i could beat dang near anyone i shot with from point a to b but I'd still struggle with getting under fifty seconds a stage . Even until this spring I'd rarely get into the low twenties. What pushed me into the teens was learning. I still don't practice much with actual shooting, but i think more. How am i going to shoot a stage.where can i shave seconds. How did the fast shooters do it. Good. Now how can i do it like them.

I've been blessed to have been helped along by some incredible shooters. In my home club i get to shoot with Amen Straight, timberjack Thomson, and my gf wizard jackpine bill (who had thirty some years on me and continues to spank my butt). Then you throw in johnny otter from sd. Top it all off with being able to watch straight arrow, carty, and the amazing duece at gunsmoke every year, well who ask for more. I watch them and dissect their stages. How did they place their guns,feet where did they gain time not on their guns. Then lastly i watch how they prepare.

One of the most important things i learned from them, especially jack pine bill, is foot speed is the last part of the equation for a fast stage. The mental game is by far the most important thing. Yeah i can rip off a stage in 17 seconds but the lax focus i have on the fourth pistol shot, or not watching my shells into my sxs that caused a fumble, well that turned it into a 22 second stage.

 

Sorry this it's rather long winded and off topic.

 

You have it figured out and now you just need experience. Experience comes with practice and practice comes with shooting. There will become a point where your transitions are excellent, your split times are very good, and your misses are ziltch. you will be ahead of shooters with near equal gun handling skills. Secret weapon at that time will be who is the fasted of foot. Watch out, that ol fart just may be quick. :lol:

I guess the most important thing about getting new shooters and retaining old ones is include everyone.

Make everybody feel special!

 

very much so.

 

Maybe that silver senior who just shot an 90 second stage had one of the smoothest transitions you've ever seen. Go up to him and say so. Ask him how he came up with it.

 

Maybe that buckerette came up with a new costume that took time and effort. Compliment her on it.

 

Maybe that cap and ball shooter made more smoke than a burning tire. Ask him about his loads.

 

Maybe that new shooter is having a bad day. don't just go up and say, way to tough it out. Find something they did right and compliment them on it. You can learn things from the slowest shooters as well as the fastest.

 

Most of all be sincere. If they did something wrong, quietly pull then aside. Ask if it would be alright if you gave them a different way to try something. Don't tell them they did it wrong and this is how to do it right. Offer an alternative way to do it and explain yourself. Then let them choose and learn if that way is faster for them.

There are some things i do that is incredibly wrong, but i do them smooth and very fast. It works for me.

 

Excellent!

 

Onwards, through the fog for ya! (A figure of speech.)

 

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You keep both SASS SA revolvers loaded and ready for your Personal Protection house guns, loaded with your normal SASS loads? If so, what load are you using. Just curious, I may want to duplicate. A black gun for out of house protection?

I think that my pistol loads at about 825 to 850 fops, soft lead would have sufficient power to do damage at ranges inside my house, short of hitting a belt buckle or pocket watch etc, my # 8 or 9 shotgun, black powder or smokeless should get a perps attention at my indoor range

 

Now it they are all fired up on drugs???...

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I think that my pistol loads at about 825 to 850 fops, soft lead would have sufficient power to do damage at ranges inside my house, short of hitting a belt buckle or pocket watch etc, my # 8 or 9 shotgun, black powder or smokeless should get a perps attention at my indoor range

 

Now it they are all fired up on drugs???...

45 or 38 cal? grain of bullet? Impressed with the fps. not with soft lead.

 

Yep, whats the plan if they are not rational/reasonable or more than one/two? If they were rational, they wouldn't be in your house in the first place. Or you miss a lot?

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Ya spent some time and a lot of effort in this post and I appreciate your thoughts.

 

I picked up that you are associated with high school and college rodeos and that is a perfect match for potential new members.

 

I have read your post a couple times and I kinda get what you don't like about the present setup and image of SASS, but I haven't figured out what needs to change (image, new hero, different costuming?) to actually draw in the 15-30something age group AND keep the ol farts happy as well.

 

You made a point about watering down the shooting to where there is no practical use for the skills acquired in SASS. There is some truth to that, but drawing firearm, acquiring sight picture, squeezing the trigger and movement to next target is transferable to other shooting venues.. Plus, just good safe gun handling skills. I have heard that SASS guns are specific to the game and of little use for anything else. I can not argue with that. i personally do not use my SASS guns for anything else. For serious work, I turn to my black guns or hunting guns. But you know what? Guns are tools and each tool is good for what it was intended to do. A hammer is a hammer and if you need a big/small one, you better have both or several. Same with screwdrivers. I am fortunate, I have an adequate gun tool box.

 

Anyway, keep thinking and keep providing us with more ideas on how to bring in the 30 something folks.

 

I'm not sure what the answer would be to appeal to a 15yr old or 25yr old as well as a 55yr old shooter, otherwise I'd give that specific advice. I DO KNOW, that by and large, the "Hollywood Cowboy" genre misses the mark for young western culture folks (myself included - even having watched these shows as a kid myself - I'd never wear it as CAS/SASS costume). Cowboys are still cool, but "heroes by design" are not. 15yr old shooters, 25yr old shooters, and 55yr old shooters, in my expectation, can appreciate heroes like Rooster Cogburn or Wyatt Earp, or Jesse James, Billy the Kid, etc - so that's common ground to build upon. Unfortunately, those don't seem to be the 'heroes' that get most of the attention, in my experience. The younger shooters won't relate to older shooter's affections for Hop Along Cassidy, the Lone Ranger, or Roy Rogers. It even surprised me this weekend that none of the high school guys at the practice I held could correctly match up Roy Rogers, Trigger, Dale Evans, Tanto, the Lone Ranger, and Silver... And just think how recently the Johnny Depp/Armie Hammer Lone Ranger film was! But they all could quote lines from Tombstone...

 

Based on the conversation direction that Madd Mike, and your own comments took from my statements about the "watered down" feeling at SASS events, I think I did not make my intention in that statement very clear. Hopefully this is more clear: The shooting in SASS is very real, and without question builds shooting skills and gun handling fundamentals at a very high level - that was NOT to what I was referring. What I am talking about is the difference in MENTALITY and "je ne sais quoi" that accompanies the shooting. The way things are written, and the attitude among shooters that I have seen around the country for CAS/SASS - including here on the wire - is VERY different than in other action shooting sports. Granted, there are competition-focused shooters that are universally similar across any shooting sport, but the aire around the rest of shooters and presentation is just different. In SASS, it's scripted more like a Charles Ingalls fist fight, where violence and the implication of killing is intentionally and vehemently diluted. Heck, it wasn't a few months ago we had a thread on here with a shooter complaining that we should not shoot cartoonized dog shaped targets as "hounds of hell" because it wasn't politically correct, and how many times have we kicked around the debate about shooting cowboy or especially "Indian" shaped targets. It has not been uncommon, in my experience, for 3 gun matches stage descriptions to describe "kill the guys on the back row first, then front row". The relevancy of the shooting gets diluted when you're instructed to holler some movie line from the back of your whiskey barrel horse with a broomstick head and fend off raiders. Comparatively, 3 gun stages where you start seated in a junkyard car, then have to fight off a carjacker - kill the guy and shoot his buddies as they run up to his aide... I can appreciate the idea that "violence" never should take center stage, but we're shooting real guns with stages sometimes scripted to be killing invaders, it really shouldn't be a question whether a dog shaped "hell hound" target is politically correct or not. Shooting is R rated, making it G-rated is a turn off to a lot of new shooters. (let alone the fact that the shooting often takes backseat to other aspects of SASS).

 

With all of that said (and with my previous posts, Lord knows it was a lot to say!), my matter of thinking is based around "Western Culture" folks, i.e. farm and ranch kids. I would honestly assume, in visiting shoots around the country, that I'm not necessarily talking about a demographic that really applies universally. In Kansas, my home turf, most folks are farm and ranch folks, or at least have family that is/was, so most SASS shooters have some exposure to that lifestyle, or even live it every day. On the other hand, I recognize that in certain parts of the country, SASS clubs might not have a single member that have ever sat on a real horse. So maybe the demographic that I've mentioned as "accessible to SASS Marketing" isn't really a large contributor to the overall membership. My demographic that I have the most contact with that I think has a relevant interest in CAS/SASS is the 15 - 30 something Midwest "cowboy", as in real live working and riding cowboys. I would assume, however, that this particular demographic might not make up a large portion of SASS's membership.

 

As to the popularity of cowboy video games, your understanding of the current market is lacking (as if this REALLY has a huge bearing on the future of SASS).

 

1) First off, my original comment said that Red Dead Revolver was successful in the early 2000's, but I also point out the success of Red Dead Redemption, it's sequel. Red Dead Redemption, released in 2010 with 'downloads' following in short years after has been incredibly successful on the on the current gaming platforms. Granted, that's 4yrs old, but again, it enjoyed epic success, and was even crowned as "Game of the Year". Red Dead Redemption 2 is slated for a 2014 release. So yes, Red Dead REVOLVER is 14yrs old, and was an epic hit on Xbox. Red Dead Redemption is 4yrs old and was an epic hit on xbox 360 and PS3, with a Sequel to come out this year, much anticipated in the industry.

 

2) Beyond that, here's some feedback from a younger "Gamer" kid that I know that I asked about this subject over the weekend - he shoes my horses and enjoys video games, cast ye not a stone at his house. The current market tolerance for video game variety is very fickle, and most genre's only have one or two hot games at the top. Red Dead has effectively mastered the cowboy game genre, much like Call of Duty has done in the military genre, or assassins creed has done in the 'fantasy' genre, Madden NFL in football, Grand Theft Auto in "anarchy", EA Sports NBA Live in basketball, and so on and so forth.... Each genre only has room for one or two successful games, as the market tends to be very fickle, and buyers won't settle for "second best". As such, there really aren't many genres that have multiple successful games. The fact that there is ONE flagship cowboy video game series suggests that Cowboy Video games - as gritty and outlandish as they might be - are alive and well. There's another western game series with releases in 2007, 09, and 2011 that has had respectable success as well, "Call of Juarez", but moreso successful on PC platform.

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45 or 38 cal? grain of bullet? Impressed with the fps. not with soft lead.

 

Yep, whats the plan if they are not rational/reasonable or more than one/two? If they were rational, they wouldn't be in your house in the first place. Or you miss a lot?

black guns that will penatrate my neighbors house after penetrating the perp

come one, shoot an aluminum can with one, it wont even move the can

if soft lead, at 850 fps dont slow ya down

410 pistol

wait, this is all a fictishish story, I am a very pasive guy willing talk em down first, if that dont work then I will grin em down like danial boone did many mean arnery black bears

if that dont work i will simply call 911 and wait

if that dont work, I will probably wake up dead the very next morning, thinking, I cuddda, shuuuuda ?

wait, if I had only shot better, i cudda won the match over all

:D:D:D:ph34r::P

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I'm not sure what the answer would be to appeal to a 15yr old or 25yr old as well as a 55yr old shooter, otherwise I'd give that specific advice. I DO KNOW, that by and large, the "Hollywood Cowboy" genre misses the mark for young western culture folks (myself included - even having watched these shows as a kid myself - I'd never wear it as CAS/SASS costume). Cowboys are still cool, but "heroes by design" are not. 15yr old shooters, 25yr old shooters, and 55yr old shooters, in my expectation, can appreciate heroes like Rooster Cogburn or Wyatt Earp, or Jesse James, Billy the Kid, etc - so that's common ground to build upon. Unfortunately, those don't seem to be the 'heroes' that get most of the attention, in my experience. The younger shooters won't relate to older shooter's affections for Hop Along Cassidy, the Lone Ranger, or Roy Rogers. It even surprised me this weekend that none of the high school guys at the practice I held could correctly match up Roy Rogers, Trigger, Dale Evans, Tanto, the Lone Ranger, and Silver... And just think how recently the Johnny Depp/Armie Hammer Lone Ranger film was! But they all could quote lines from Tombstone...

 

Based on the conversation direction that Madd Mike, and your own comments took from my statements about the "watered down" feeling at SASS events, I think I did not make my intention in that statement very clear. Hopefully this is more clear: The shooting in SASS is very real, and without question builds shooting skills and gun handling fundamentals at a very high level - that was NOT to what I was referring. What I am talking about is the difference in MENTALITY and "je ne sais quoi" that accompanies the shooting. The way things are written, and the attitude among shooters that I have seen around the country for CAS/SASS - including here on the wire - is VERY different than in other action shooting sports. Granted, there are competition-focused shooters that are universally similar across any shooting sport, but the aire around the rest of shooters and presentation is just different. In SASS, it's scripted more like a Charles Ingalls fist fight, where violence and the implication of killing is intentionally and vehemently diluted. Heck, it wasn't a few months ago we had a thread on here with a shooter complaining that we should not shoot cartoonized dog shaped targets as "hounds of hell" because it wasn't politically correct, and how many times have we kicked around the debate about shooting cowboy or especially "Indian" shaped targets. It has not been uncommon, in my experience, for 3 gun matches stage descriptions to describe "kill the guys on the back row first, then front row". The relevancy of the shooting gets diluted when you're instructed to holler some movie line from the back of your whiskey barrel horse with a broomstick head and fend off raiders. Comparatively, 3 gun stages where you start seated in a junkyard car, then have to fight off a carjacker - kill the guy and shoot his buddies as they run up to his aide... I can appreciate the idea that "violence" never should take center stage, but we're shooting real guns with stages sometimes scripted to be killing invaders, it really shouldn't be a question whether a dog shaped "hell hound" target is politically correct or not. Shooting is R rated, making it G-rated is a turn off to a lot of new shooters. (let alone the fact that the shooting often takes backseat to other aspects of SASS).

 

With all of that said (and with my previous posts, Lord knows it was a lot to say!), my matter of thinking is based around "Western Culture" folks, i.e. farm and ranch kids. I would honestly assume, in visiting shoots around the country, that I'm not necessarily talking about a demographic that really applies universally. In Kansas, my home turf, most folks are farm and ranch folks, or at least have family that is/was, so most SASS shooters have some exposure to that lifestyle, or even live it every day. On the other hand, I recognize that in certain parts of the country, SASS clubs might not have a single member that have ever sat on a real horse. So maybe the demographic that I've mentioned as "accessible to SASS Marketing" isn't really a large contributor to the overall membership. My demographic that I have the most contact with that I think has a relevant interest in CAS/SASS is the 15 - 30 something Midwest "cowboy", as in real live working and riding cowboys. I would assume, however, that this particular demographic might not make up a large portion of SASS's membership.

 

As to the popularity of cowboy video games, your understanding of the current market is lacking (as if this REALLY has a huge bearing on the future of SASS).

 

1) First off, my original comment said that Red Dead Revolver was successful in the early 2000's, but I also point out the success of Red Dead Redemption, it's sequel. Red Dead Redemption, released in 2010 with 'downloads' following in short years after has been incredibly successful on the on the current gaming platforms. Granted, that's 4yrs old, but again, it enjoyed epic success, and was even crowned as "Game of the Year". Red Dead Redemption 2 is slated for a 2014 release. So yes, Red Dead REVOLVER is 14yrs old, and was an epic hit on Xbox. Red Dead Redemption is 4yrs old and was an epic hit on xbox 360 and PS3, with a Sequel to come out this year, much anticipated in the industry.

 

2) Beyond that, here's some feedback from a younger "Gamer" kid that I know that I asked about this subject over the weekend - he shoes my horses and enjoys video games, cast ye not a stone at his house. The current market tolerance for video game variety is very fickle, and most genre's only have one or two hot games at the top. Red Dead has effectively mastered the cowboy game genre, much like Call of Duty has done in the military genre, or assassins creed has done in the 'fantasy' genre, Madden NFL in football, Grand Theft Auto in "anarchy", EA Sports NBA Live in basketball, and so on and so forth.... Each genre only has room for one or two successful games, as the market tends to be very fickle, and buyers won't settle for "second best". As such, there really aren't many genres that have multiple successful games. The fact that there is ONE flagship cowboy video game series suggests that Cowboy Video games - as gritty and outlandish as they might be - are alive and well. There's another western game series with releases in 2007, 09, and 2011 that has had respectable success as well, "Call of Juarez", but moreso successful on PC platform.

wow, mental, my last CCW class had me put the barrel of my gun against the paper target and shoot

you are right, I hesitated, thinking this was stupid, wrong, insenceitive etc

thank the creator for teaching me that hesitation on paper with witness's to boast my male ego to think, think, think

 

dude, I will do what it takes to defend me, and my family and friends, if it comes to that some day

 

good point, action speaks much louder then simple key strokes of the trigger finger

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black guns that will penatrate my neighbors house after penetrating the perp

come one, shoot an aluminum can with one, it wont even move the can

if soft lead, at 850 fps dont slow ya down

410 pistol

wait, this is all a fictishish story, I am a very pasive guy willing talk em down first, if that dont work then I will grin em down like danial boone did many mean arnery black bears

if that dont work i will simply call 911 and wait

if that dont work, I will probably wake up dead the very next morning, thinking, I cuddda, shuuuuda ?

wait, if I had only shot better, i cudda won the match over all

:D:D:D:ph34r::P

Clarification on my part. I thought there were black gun-pistols & black gun-rifles. Appearantly there are only rifles and more toward military style and setups. In earlier post I was trying to convey the every day modern polymer (plastic??) semi-auto's.

 

A 223 caliber doesn't tend to go very far if at all after hitting P. Dogs. Or so I am told.

 

I know nothing, since I don't own any firearms and have full faith in 911. they are here to help.

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Clarification on my part. I thought there were black gun-pistols & black gun-rifles. Appearantly there are only rifles and more toward military style and setups. In earlier post I was trying to convey the every day modern polymer (plastic??) semi-auto's.

 

A 223 caliber doesn't tend to go very far if at all after hitting P. Dogs. Or so I am told.

 

I know nothing, since I don't own any firearms and have full faith in 911. they are here to help.

Hollow points should not travel far after first impact of something

Full Jacketed will continue on in many cases

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gilbertsguns.com/productimages/006300.small.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gilbertsguns.com/Handguns/Springfield%2BXD-XDM/Springfield%2BXDM%2B3%2B8%2BCompact%2B40%2BCal%2BBlack%2BPistol%2BXDM9384CBHC&h=200&w=300&tbnid=XiR-0V7vYI8flM:&zoom=1&docid=LyGjO_s2fhoINM&hl=en&ei=FRAzVLaBEMT6igKQ04GYDQ&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCEQMygDMAM

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